NBA SPORTS TALK 1o1

[Asmodian]

I was debating about this with some friends and figured I would move it over to this thread with some of the thoughts I mentioned while talking with my friends.

The most talented team is the 90’s especially when you consider whom you have to leave off to cut it down to 5 with Robinson, Ewing, Pippen, Hill, Payton and Drexler. If we were actually talking about a real basketball team I would take the 80’s though. The players selected from the 80’s team skill sets completely compliment one another on the court. It would be the show time Lakers on steroids. I think people forget how good Larry Legend was, he was a more efficient Lebron James with a better jumper.


Steve Nash or Jason Kid should be the point guard for the 00's. Both of the guys were better players than Iverson and would make the 00's a legit threat to any of the other eras. I guess you could also put D.Wade at the point since he had/has better point guard skills than Iverson even though that wasn’t his position.


The 10’s team looks really weak right now compared to all of the other eras. I guess If you replaced Harden with LeBron (how it should be), give Anthony Davis another 5 years and move Durant to the 2 and add Blake Griffin in if he continues to progress over the next year 5 years then that could look a lot better.

[Chohan]

Ya Iverson doesn't make sense there over Jason Kidd. I would take the 90's and 00's teams to beat the others. Jordan + Hakeem is killer. And the combo of Shaq - Duncan would work over any front court there is.

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

I'd agree, 90s or 00s.

[Captain]

Kobe Bryant is on that list, he hasn't been a top 5 players since he joined the league, thus, the list is void.

[wwo]

I was a fan from the entireity of the 80s till now, and individually, the 00s win. If the game took each player at the top of their game with no time to practice, I'd give it to the 90s, because there was an inherent understanding of teamwork and roles. But if there was a week to prepare and gel under a good enough coach (auerbach, riley, jackson, popovich), I don't think the 00s would lose more than 2 games out of 7.

epilogue:
If Malone is pf, Pippen > Barkley every day and twice on Sundays.
Thomas was good, but a pg isn't needed at all with Bird and Magic in there. Swap in any number of sg for him.

[par73]

The 80s team would shit on everyone and those preaching otherwise underestimate Moses Malone or are under the assumption the only Malone in the nba played for the jazz. That is the one team on this list that would thrive on the court against all the other generations during their opponents era.
A debate based on "what era beats what era" often falls to pieces when you realize these players played under different rules and circumstances.
The modern players are often catered and babied and the older players had to deal with shitty transportation and technology.
The 80s fall right in between and have some of the most physical players as well as some of the most efficient playmakers, scorers and rebounders; I would say they are favored over the 90s squad and that squad is loaded (and probably the only reason we are discussing basketball today).

I get Elgin Baylor was something amazing in the early years but Bob Cousy should be on that list over him; the bias of the list truly leans towards the Lakers and the West. That 70s group would be spot on yet, I think you gotta fit John Havlicek in there somewhere as the celtics would have zero titles in the 70s without him. The author throws Pete Maravich in there but his nba performances were lackluster in comparison to his college play because he was surrounded by selfish brats when he went pro.

A team with Thomas and magic would have been deadly as fuck so I don't really see the point of replacing him with a "2" when the SG era was slowly developing and not actually prominent until Jordan raged through the 90s. Thomas was an excellent facilitator but don't throw out the fact he was just as much a scoring machine (Thomas was surrounded by two great scorers, thus often overlooked as one). Wwo you are pretty old, are you sure you even watched basketball in the 80s? I'm pretty sure the term "shooting guard" was non-existent at that time.


Apparently Kobe was a top 5 player in the league when he joined the NBA? I guess cap is counting out the 5 representing the 90s who had established solid careers by the time he joined.

The 2010s group is very interesting because it recognizes the current era's trend of loading up with guards for rotation benefits and opponent exploitation. Quite honestly, Lebron should be in that 10s group rather than the 00s when he was still up and coming; replaced by Dirk, Ginobli, Parker, Pierce, Garnett, McGrady, Carter or *gasp* Melo.

[Captain]

Apparently Kobe was a top 5 player in the league when he joined the NBA? I guess cap is counting out the 5 representing the 90s who had established solid careers by the time he joined.

No, I am saying Kobe was never a top 5 player in any time era. He should never be on anyones top 5 list of an era, or all time.

[par73]

ah misread but i have always admired your hatred for kobe, make sure when you drink alcohol you're never in the vicinity of rawr.

kobe top5 2005 - 2009/2010? sure

he fits in that 00 era nicely where as lebron probably doesn't belong (2010s is his era, hello 5 consecutive nba finals)

i take dirk and either garnett or pierce removing kobe and lebron from that list.

[Pogue]

This basketball version of "Mythers were more skillful in 2001," is utterly pointless. However, I would like to see the 80s and 90s play a best of seven. The rest of these teams can die in a fire because basketball sucked in every other decade.

[Captain]

ah misread but i have always admired your hatred for kobe, make sure when you drink alcohol you're never in the vicinity of rawr.

kobe top5 2005 - 2009/2010? sure

he fits in that 00 era nicely where as lebron probably doesn't belong (2010s is his era, hello 5 consecutive nba finals)

i take dirk and either garnett or pierce removing kobe and lebron from that list.

Kobe has always been a slightly above average player and nothing more. Yeah he is probably top 20 in his era. But only cause the guy shoots the ball and doesn't stop. Kobe literally has made every team he has ever played on worse than when he plays. Not many superstars can have that said about them

[Asmodian]

I wouldn't say he has made every team he has played on worse, that would automatically disqualify him for your 'top 20 in her era'. What I would say is he doesn't make the players around him better. When Lebron, Jason Kidd, Chris paul and many other great players switched teams they instantly made a major impact in terms of wins on those teams they joined that were previously not good.. When kobe has played on bad Laker teams his impact on the other players is not big and the team remains bad.

[Captain]

I wouldn't say he has made every team he has played on worse, that would automatically disqualify him for your 'top 20 in her era'. What I would say is he doesn't make the players around him better. When Lebron, Jason Kidd, Chris paul and many other great players switched teams they instantly made a major impact in terms of wins on those teams they joined that were previously not good.. When kobe has played on bad Laker teams his impact on the other players is not big and the team remains bad.

If you look up the games when Kobe had a good team, and he was out, the teams winning % was higher when Kobe didn't play, that goes almost throughout his career

[Asmodian]

Do you have a link to a reference that shows this? I would be interested to see it. Also is that sample size big enough to hold any significant weight? I think Kobe is the most over rated player of all time, but I would never call him average or slightly above average in his prime.

[Captain]

Closest thing I can find on why Kobe Bryant is the most overrated player in NBA history. I have read countless articles about his win % without or with him, and the numbers don't lie, the team fairs better when Kobe does not play.

http://thesportingtruth.com/?p=2035

[Asmodian]

Closest thing I can find on why Kobe Bryant is the most overrated player in NBA history. I have read countless articles about his win % without or with him, and the numbers don't lie, the team fairs better when Kobe does not play.

http://thesportingtruth.com/?p=2035

That article is very well written and exactly how I have always see Kobe Bryant. I still clearly remember the Lakers Finals against the Pistons where I was just shocked that they weren't giving Shaq the ball and Kobe was just jacking up shots. This article makes it very clear that he isn't an "all time great" (very subjective, but I know I could point out at least 30-40 players that were better than Kobe based on stats.

The one thing this article doesn't show is the stat I'm interested in though. It only shows that the Laker teams had a better winning percentage without Kobe during the 3-peat. I would want to know what the winning % has been with/without him with all his teams throughout his career because I feel like Kobe became a better player later on than earlier in his career where he clearly rode Shaq to 3 titles.

[Captain]

Working on finding more articles here are some(I know these are later years obv)

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/ ... thout-kobe

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2307 ... obe-bryant

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

Kobe at 1:25

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQjRb77vFow[/youtube]

But seriously guys, maybe Kobe is overrated by Lakers fans and the Chinese, but you guys exaggerate.

[par73]

HUGHES AND FELDMAN ARE KNOWN KOBE HATERS THEY JELLY OF THE 5 RINGS

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

So you guys might remember me as the most adept myther at predicting the standings last year, including picking the Warriors for the top seed and basically having a 100% record for which teams would make the playoffs (minus the Kings, though who could have predicted DMC getting viral fuckin meningitis?). Anyway, I've decided on some more comprehensive rankings this year. I've done the Western Conference, Eastern conference coming soon!

1. Spurs

THE OLD STAGS. Was originally going to put the Warriors here but I think that the Spurs will see the enormity of having the Warriors or Thunder play each other before the WCF. They will also want to rectify themselves after that last regular season loss that dropped their seed so that they’d face the Clippers first round. They kind of miscalculated last season, rested too much and didn’t manage to end up near the top of the standings, where they’ve always been the years they’ve won championships. I also think that the Duncan/Aldridge frontcourt is basically the perfect antidote for Warriors extreme smallball, besides being generally awesome. I will admit, however, that Greene actually has a good history of guarding LMA. I think this is because LMA uses his shoulder bumps to get clearance, and Draymond is just that hard to move with his core strength and low center of gravity. Still, in the long run, LMA’s unblockable shot (except by Anthony Davis) wins out. I have no idea what is wrong with people who worry about Aldridge’s fit: Duncan has been guarding centers for a while anyway, and Aldridge is the best PF in the league with West backing him up. My pick to win the championship, then I cry into my Aldridge jersey. Two caveats though. (1) I’m a little worried about how much depth they gave up, no more Belinelli hot-streaky shooting and the Splitter workhorse. (2) Tony Parker will have to bounce back a bit (he looked awful in eurobasket…) and Manu Ginobili needs to arrest his rapid decline. But with a Kwahi, Aldridge, Duncan front court (one of the best ever?) I don’t really see how even a week backcourt will have problem passing to three of the best forwards in the league on every possession.

2. Warriors

Warriors have a great team and style for regular season success, as they showed last season. They brought back the entire championship team (minus David Lee, who was way overrated even when he was an all star… can’t shoot or defend) Curry is the best shooter ever, and Klay is overrated but a perfect complement, the shadow to his light. They also are remarkably durable and healthier than ever. As last year’s finals and especially the playoff series with a far from healthy Grizzlies team showed, however, a big, skilled frontcourt is effective against them. I love Draymond Greene, but he cannot guard Aldridge or Duncan...or LeBron for that matter, as we saw (wasn’t it funny how they gave Iguodala the finals MVP for letting LeBron “only” score like 30 points a game?). Also, they were exceptionally healthy last year, just sayin. My head really tells me that they should at the top of the regular season standings, but my heart knows that the Spurs won’t let it happen.

3. Thunder

A slow start as this now suddenly very deep, young roster takes time to gel and Durant eases back from injury. Westbrook is still super saiyan mode from last season. Eventually their uppity new college-level coach is told to sit down and Westbrook and Durant just do flashy isos and breakaway megadunks all the time with no real plan and destroy people anyway as usual. But the slower start leaves them with the third seed behind the Warriors. By playoff time they are killing everyone and nobody wants to play them. They narrowly beat the Warriors in the WCSF and lose to the Spurs in 7. At some point Duncan scores his own age on Enes Kanter. I also predict that the ugly, white faces of the fans in OKC’s arena continue to make the place look like a WalMart on a nightly basis. Give them back to Seattle! Still, I worry about their glaring hole at shooting guard, where they either have to sacrifice D or shooting between Morrow and Roberson.

4. Grizzlies

I love this team and how they keep the torch of thuggish 80s basketball alive. They pushed the Warriors harder than any other in the playoffs, and did so while injured to boot. You just can’t count out the Gasol/Randolph front court. They still haven't solved their shooting/spacing problems, but Tony Allen’s slavering defense more than makes up for this in my opinion: Klay Thompson looked like he wanted to cry when Allen was on him last year, I just love his glassy-eyed insanity. I’m not really on the “Mike Conley is underrated” bandwagon (not saying he’s overrated, just rated) but he is a perfect ambidextrous floor general to play with their powerful 4 and 5.

5. Clippers

Remember when everyone loved “lob city” as the next upcoming team, with a flashy, aggressive style to boot? Now, after years of high mediocrity / lower end success everyone seems bored of them. I think they’ll have a similar season to last years, though they’re definitely not going to lose to the Rockets again, I can promise you that. I think that Deandre Jordan, Blake Griffin, and Chris Paul have all peaked. A slightly less doo-doo bench should prevent the sort of exhausted collapse that happened in the postseason, but honestly I feel like the awesomeness of Peirce and Jamal Crawford off the bench is counterbalanced by Josh Smith and Lance Stephenson’s descent into the infernal trash heap. Austin Rivers sucks too.

6. Rockets

The Ty Lawson addition is excellent for them, fits in well with their speedy shoot shoot, runrunrun, layup approach. They lost Josh Smith who got hawt last years finals but meh, he sucks. If Motiejunas and Dwight Howard stay healthy they’ll have a great frontcourt to complement their improved backcourt. Wouldn’t be surprised if they ended up higher, but they had so many lucky, close grind-it-out wins to snatch the 2 seed last year that I just don’t see that feet being replicated.

7. Pelicans

Didn’t change much but Anthony Davis’ continued ascent should be good enough for them to rise 1 spot in the standings. The evacuation of the Blazers roster helps too, of course. I think this is the year they start being mentioned in the same breath as the top 6 teams, who for the past few season have constituted a tier unto their own. They are really, really injured already though, to the point that I hesitate putting them at 7. Still, even someone as measured as Zach Lowe recently said that he wouldn’t be surprised if AD ended up as the greatest player ever, though I think that people are getting future potential mixed up with current dominance to some extent.

8. Kings

I haven’t completely lost faith in Rondo yet, and I think that his game will complement Cousins’ well in a half court offense. They’re both great passers and highly competitive. In the short run, it’s good for them that Wes Matthews turned up his nose at the huge contract they tried to give him, though that would have been a great fit in the long run. Still, Belinelli will give them some much needed shooting. Cauley-Stein’s defense will allow Cousins to exert himself even more on offense. Cousins has said that the MVP is “his to take” this year and I believe him: remember that he was on pace for an absolutely historic season before he went down with viral meningitis last year.

9. Blazers

They have too many bigs, which is a bad thing minutes wise, but hopefully some of them will blossom. If Noah Vonleh keeps developing as an all-rounder and Meyers Leonard can keep his shooting up and not be such a Giant Bieber pussy about playing center, they could be a really interesting front court: two big athletic guys who can also pop out and shoot. I’m not actually too high on McCollum: he’s just too much of a tweener, but hopefully he can light up the scoreboard and pump up his trade value. Look for Allen Crabbe to come out of nowhere and light it up as a 3&D guy. But most importantly:



People have come to underestimate the value of a truly great player. Lillard puts the Blazers above teams like the Suns and Jazz just about on his own. I am predicting a Westbrook 14/15 type performance from him. He isn't quite the shooter Curry is, but if it weren't for curry he'd already be thought of as one of the deadliest snipers ever, and when was the last time you saw Curry do this?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEAdWNTABdQ[/youtube]

Westbook-Curry hybrid anyone?

10. Suns

Chandler is a great addition for them, adding veteran presence to a tumultuous young core. The Bledsoe/Knight backcourt looks great on paper. Both are good defenders, and Knight’s shooting complements Bledsoe’s athleticism and ability to get to the rim. If Markieff Morris can get him head on straight, he has the potential to be a slightly above average PF. They have something of a hole at SF, but they also have a nice platoon of young talent like Len and Goodwin etc, which people don’t quite realize as the Suns don’t mind letting their young talent develop behind veteran starters. Choosing between them and the Kings was close for the 8th seed, but had to go with the ballsy choice.

11. Jazz

Had a great finish to the season last year and some great young talent. The Stifle Tower looked amazing in Euroleague and has added a lot of muscle to his lanky pterodactyl frame. The Dante Exum injury hurts: he was still very much a work in progress, but Trey Burke is undersized and not good, and this leaves a big hole at backup PG too. I have little faith in Derrick Favors, particularly as his vaunted “development” in his jumpshot is still pretty slow, making him not a very good fit alongside Gobert, who is much more important to what they do defensively. I think a lot of people are overestimating this team, they just don’t have a transcendent star.

12. Lakers

If I was the Lakers I’d let Kobe take as many shots as possible, get another good pick while keeping the money from Kobe fans (China!) rolling in, .with Lou Williams playing a sort of “bench Kobe” role as the tank-chucker. And this indeed appears to be the plan. They have a couple of high upside young guys in Randle and Russel and seem to have pretty clear roster spots for them to get some time, but they’re numerically speaking they still have a lot less young talent than the rest of the W. Conference’s cellar dwellers. Kobe is going to ride Hibbert hard and it’s not going to turn out well.

13. Nuggets

They already have an promising young core with Mudiay (who I think will be the best player in this year’s draft, the classist prejudice against his playing in the Chinese league instead of the NCAA, despite the Chinese league actually being more competitive than the NCAA, is absurd) Nurkic (the bosnian bear!), Faried, and even Will Barton (who the Blazers gave up on too easily I think, he basically won them their only game vs the spurs the year before last). Gallinari is better than people realize if he can continue to bounce back from injury (looked great in euroleague), and Chandler is ok, but I think these two will be moved by the trade deadline for picks to add to the younger group.

14. Wolves

They have really great young talent in Wiggins, Towns, Rubio, and even Lavine if he can play a little more under control (people see his dunks and overrate him). But does it all hang together? They have been absolute shit without Rubio on the court, and that's bad considering Rubio isn't even that good. Towns was a perfect pick up for them & has looked pretty scary on D, despite the typical rookie fouls. This is going to be a really fun team to watch with lot’s of cool assists, alley oops, transition dunks, and they might eventually be an excellent team. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves, they finished at the bottom of the conference last year and we can’t expect too much of a jump from these young guys yet. I think either a contender or a team desperately in need of a better center (the Mavs?) will pick up Pekovic at some point.

15. Mavs

Marc Cuban sucks. Seriously, why does anyone admire this guy as an owner and quasi-GM? His failure to get Deandre is on HIM, and honestly Deandre is overrated and not that much of an improvement over Chandler, not enough to take this unnecessary and childishly greedy risk. He split up their championship team, shipped off Chandler, who is great alongside Nowinski, TWICE. Gave up on Steve Nash and basically wasted Nowitzki's prime with the exception that one title (why on earth is Nowinski so loyal to him? Makes him seem like a dolt.) A meddlesome millionaire with the impatience of a 5 year old. Also a coward who has publicly stated that he is terrified of BOTH black ppl in hoodies and white ppl with tattoos. The only silver lining to them finishing at the bottom of the league is that they get to keep their pick? Poor Mathews, he was the heart and soul of the Blazers and now he’s stuck with this asshole, albeit with a fat contract despite his Achilles tear (though he woulda made more with the Kings, what a mistake).

[Lord---Scary Owl]

If you are not black do not post here.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

If you are not black do not post here.

Well you broke your own rule didn't you, dumbass?
This is why your dad shouldn't let Myth raise his inbred children.

Anyway, I know you are all on the edge of your seats waiting for my E. Conference predictions, but gimme a few days they are a lot trickier than the West. Research!

[par73]

mavs 15 lol
i think u ranked the clippers and kings too low

east doesn't matter coz cavs in finals until lebron retires

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

i think u ranked the clippers and kings too low

Oh you mean the two teams that acquired players from the Celtics championship team?

You really think the Kings should be higher than 8th? I thought that putting them there was already pretty gutsy. Most people would probably have the Suns or Jazz. Still, I can see what you're saying if you're taking all of the New Orleans injuries into account.

Clippers probably a 2nd round exit yet again. At this point, it's just their ceiling. I could have put the Rockets ahead of them and still been satisfied.

Wes Matthews announced he'll play in the opener right after I posted, so they might be able to crawl out of the cellar, but still just barely.

[par73]

haha yes of course, i will be rooting for the clips all year long now that they have picked up the truth and i believe he's destined to ride out into the sunset with his second ring in his last hurrah (permitting

do i think the kings should be higher than 8th? no but since you look to throw dallas out of the window in your list then in this contest i suppose we've entered anythings possible land !
I am overly optimistic about the kings this year after hearing about rondo trade talks to sacramento since 2010, the pelicans injuries you mentioned and the blazers losing one of their most important players.
you know what the scary thing is though? the blazers might not even be that bad off. i think the kings and blazers are both sleepers.

last year none of yall (actually maybe you did milk) gave the rockets/harden love and he did what i told you he'd do so next time i ask a question remember your response is moot because deez nuts idiot

lets go back to the clips tho
probably a 2nd round exit again? i think all of these teams probably have a 2nd round exit, just look at their potential opponents. while you could argue it's their ceiling, i would argue its your ceiling that you can't see them breaking their trend. with the sterling affair 1-2 years behind them i think the next 3 years could potentially be their calling especially looking at their individual contracts.
i think the clips could win more than 56 in the regular season this year and in the playoffs they exceed your expectations. pierce also closes playoff games and knows how to inspire his mentality than others, i don't think there was a better option out there for them at all.
but yea, i think pelicans, blazers are out, hell you might be right about mavs. that leaves room for the kings.

wes matthews announcing he'll play in the opener has little to do with your 2nd round exit prophecy unless he's coming back from injury too early for his own good. you're underestimating a team that eliminated popovich spurs team in the first round last year.

more likely than the prophetic ceiling effect to influence playoff results is their schedule.
for example, the clips were eliminated in 14 games in two matches last year and the future champions didn't play their 14th game until they were 1 win away from winning their third 4-game series and going to the finals.
one would argue the cavs are favored to win the nba finals this year not because they are the best team of all nba teams but because they secure their ticket playing against eastern conference teams and avoid going through sluggers like the grizzlies, warriors, spurs, clippers, thunder and the rockets.


the west is always a crap shoot and looks as exciting as it usually does!
lets see those EAST rankings

[Pogue]

If you are not black do not post here.

Well you broke your own rule didn't you, dumbass?
This is why your dad shouldn't let Myth raise his inbred children.

[Asmodian]

Blazers and Suns are a little bit too high. I would probably bump the Jazz ahead of those two as well as the Mavs. Other than that it looks pretty good to me although I would swap a few of the teams like the Grizzlies and the clippers. Kings should make the playoffs this year, if they don't make it with all the talent they have then fml.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

Blazers and Suns are a little bit too high. I would probably bump the Jazz ahead of those two as well as the Mavs. Other than that it looks pretty good to me although I would swap a few of the teams like the Grizzlies and the clippers. Kings should make the playoffs this year, if they don't make it with all the talent they have then fml.

Most people would probably agree with you on the Blazers being closser to the bottom...honestly that would be a good thing for them in terms of draft picks, they might even make some moves to ensure this if things go to well, but they have one thing all those lower teams don't have, which is an up and coming, durable superstar in Damian Lillard. If Westbrook could will the Thunder to the 9th spot last year, Lillard can do it this year, especially since the roster isn't even as dogshit as what the Thunder had last year.

Don't see why you'd have the Mavs that high. Parsons had micro-fracture surgery—the worst kind of surgery—this summer, Mathews is coming off an Achilles tear (though I believe in him), Deron Williams sucks now and has glass ankles + no work ethic, and Nowitski can barely move on D & no longer has Tyson Chandler to help him...their Center rotation is the ancient Georgian mummy known as Zaza Pachulia & the human blooper reel known as JaVale McGee. Seriously, I'll say it again, Cuban is a moron.

I really think Kings will make it but I agree, if they don't it might be time for back to square one, which would be really tragic for such a star crossed franchise.

[Asmodian]

It's not so much the Mavs as it is everyone else in the west. The Mavs at least have established leadership and one of the better coaches.

I think you rate Lillard a lot higher than almost everyone else, he's not a super star that's for sure. The only players I consider super-star caliber right now are: Lebron,Curry,KD & AD with Westbrook,Griffin,CP3 & Gasol being the next closest thing. Lillard is probably somewhere between 20-30, but he isn't going to carry a team to 9th that lost 5 of its 6 best players from last year.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

Okay I'm rushing the E. conference rankings out in order to get them in before the season starts tonight. The writing might need a little editing later, but these are my reg. season rankings:

1. Hawks

Losing Carol sucks, but Bazemore and Sefolosha (once he gets back from his NYPD broken leg, wtf?) are still a good rotation at the 3 spot. Tim Hardaway Jr sucks on D and is an overated, if still effective shooter, but if he can learn the system he is a good Korver sub at the 2 spot. They addressed their biggest problem vs. the Cavs, which was size, with the Splitter acquisition this summer. I’m really not a big Splitter fan but he already knows their Spursian system and he gives them flexibility. Horford is a natural 4 and Millsap is agile enough to play the 3, so they can go super big with Splitter at the 5. Or, they can go super small with Teague and Shröder at SG and PG respectively. Shröder looked really great in Euroleague and his 3 point shot is starting to develop, so maybe he can shed the “Rondo Jr.” stigma. I don’t think they can get to the finals but all the people who don’t believe they can hit 60 wins again are trippin.

2. Cavs

Mo Williams is the key. He is like the Fog Raw of aging but consistently flashy and good point guards.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRrbmJ3Xb40[/youtube]

Didn’t he score like 55 points for the Hornets at some point last year? If the Blazers had kept Mo, things would have been different. He won at least one game for the Blazers in that series against the rockets and they cut him loose, for what? For fucking Steve Blake and Chris Kaman? Because they were balding? Because they were white?! Aldridge would have never left if…but I digress…

Seriously, the addition of an actually decent backup point guard is huge for them. He was an All Star along with LeBron, so we know they play well together right? With JR smith the cavs have a 1-2 scoring punch on the bench. Tristan Thompson & Varejao (if he stays healthy) will be great hustling after Mo and JR bricks (sorry I mean “Kobe assists”) and setting them screens they’ll waive away. Still, with LeBron inevitably playing some 4 they are bit crowded up front and shallow in the backcourt, especially with Shumps, their best on ball defender outside of LeBron injured. They are the only real contenders in the East, and will face a Western conference team that has just been severely tested.

If everyone was healthy, they’d just breeze through the east. But with so many injuries—Mozgov, Shumpert, Irving, and Love fresh off one—I really think their start might end up a bit rocky. I think Atlanta beats them in the regular season again, with similar but not Derrick Rose level rapey in the post season.

3. Wizards

I was tempted to put them higher. I know they lost Pierce, who was absolutely clutch in last year’s playoffs, but I think the tru7h rubbed off on the younger players, and it’s easy to forget that it was Wall’s injury that really cost them a trip to the ECF. They have taken a step every year for the past 3 seasons, and with the new emphasis on a smaller, faster lineup that emphasizes Wall and Beal’s skills, they are ready to really challenge for the Eastern trophy. I do think that Dudley can do a lot of what Pierce did for them last year, and Otto Porter really looks like he’s starting to figure things out & may even end up starting at the 3. Out of all the teams in the East, this one is the most likely to challenge LeBron and the Cavs: they are better at 3 out of the 5 positions (though, of course, the drop off between LeBron and their SFs is pretty fuckin significant). Still, I really believe in Wall, who is by far the best PG in the east (yes he is better than Kyrie on both sides of the floor, and much more durable). I think this will be an incredible season for him. Plus, they have Durant to fight for and look forward to. I mean, what more can you say for the fastest player in the league, for whom a 360 layup is a regular move?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIrbnIBYiV0[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLgk27yfjyc[/youtube]

etc...

4. Heat

Such an intriguing lineup, but I’m just not sure the pieces fit. Old Wade and Whiteside the behemoth are really half court players, whereas Dragic is a coast to coast guy. Bosh can play with anyone, and he was absolutely killing it before he went down with those out-of-nowhere bloodclots last year. Thibodeau just used Luol Deng up, but hopefully he still has a few fumes to run on. Getting Justise Winslow was a huge coup for them, and alongside McBob they have a better bench than since before the LeBron era. I just don’t see this group really coming together though, 4th seed might even be too high. They have great potential though, and I’ve read about some rumblings of a Winslow + pieces trade for Carmelo, which would definitely catapult them a few slots, and seems realistic considering Pat Riley’s disdain for draftees....but would the Knicks agree to this?!

5. Bucks

I’m not in love with the Monroe acquisition, but he’s younger than people realize so he definitely fits the timeline better than Zaza did. A bit of a liability on defense but all the length and switch defense around him should just let him stand in the middle being in the way, and he is an undeniable post presence. Atempbounkolunkamofuka is really an amazing player to watch; he really could be the next Kevin Durant, a 7 footer with mad guard skills, absolutely unguardable, though he will probably skew a bit more towards defense than Durant does (he could also fall well short of this, of course, but I’m optimistic). Jabari Parker is a great fit on this offensively challenged team, though I do think it will take him a bit longer to recover from the ACL surgery, which usually takes about another year to really come back from (I had this surgery myself so I know). I really love how Jason Kidd has crafted a team that reflects his own ways as a player. Hopefully he can blow some of what turned him into a decent shooter into MCW’s ear. MCW fits perfectly into the long-armed forest of defensive tentacles, but he really needs to step his shooting up: the modern NBA is not kind to non-shooting guards.

6. Bulls

Supposedly they are moving Noah to the bench and will be starting Mirotic and Gasol. I would have benched Pau, not because he isn’t good (had an amazing Renaissance last season and single handedly won Eurobasket for Spain), but because Noah is the heart and soul of this team and a benching will hamper his ability to drive this team with his relentless, shit talking will. Rose like to gangbang innocent young ladies much like he has gangbanged this franchise for cash (though he’s already looking for more such multi-cock cash-extraction in 2017), and he has passive aggressively feuded with Butler—this team’s real best player—for the better part of a year (how is this even possible when neither of them ever even say a word?) Also, he comes off as pretty learning disabled. Without Thibodeau's neurotically iron will to hold things together I forsee a lot of drama and an eventual flame out. There is enough talent here to get them a #6 seed none-the-less, even if it means a humiliating first round defeat to the up and coming Bucks. Perhaps the elegant, if ugly, Pau will write a stirring opera about this season in a few years.

7. Raptors

Lowry is apparently in great shape and has been tearing things up in preseason. But can their already putrid D withstand the loss of Amir Johnson? The Wizards absolutely raped them on the wings last year, like 2 Derrick Rose cocks from either end, and the Carol addition should help with that. But, this means that Valanciunas has to step up (incidentally, I had some Lithuanian friends invite me to watch him play in the Euroleague finals this year...at the local Lithuanian church. Yes he is practically a god among these people, Son of Sabonis). I think he’s ready for this: he was one of the best post up players in the league last year, and has all the tools to be at least OK on defense if given the opportunity. But, in the meantime, the rest of the East has passed them by.

8. Pacers

Ever since Monta Ellis was supplanted by Curry and Thompson in Golden State he’s been passed around the league like a drugged schoolgirl at a Derrick Rose party, but he’s still managed to get incrementally better year after year. He’s a pretty good fit with the suddenly very 90s blonde George Hill: a defensively minded, pass first PG with a flashy SG scorer/ball handler. Most importantly, Paul George is back, and though the dramatic switch in style from lumbering giants to a smaller, speedier system will be painful, I think PG-13s superstar is going to rise again and carry them into the playoffs.

9. Knicks

Putting the Knicks above the Celtics is 30% just to piss par off, but 70% because they have Carmelo as well as a very smart pickup in Robin Lopez, who can protect the rim and hit foul shots even if he’s not spectacular. Afflalo, on the other hand, is a terrible player: plays Kobe style will tons of wing post ups but has never really had the skill to be really effective. Very overrated player. Porzingis is intriguing even if he doesn’t really fit New York as a city, poor kid didn’t deserve to get booed on draft night but I can definitely see how it happened. The few highlights I have seen of him show that he has some really polished mooves from a 19 year old, but he’s already having injuries and does not look like he has NBA muscle or even the potential for such muscle. We’ll see.

10. Celtics

David Lee is overrated and always was, even and especially when he got on the All Star team. Still he fits great with I. Thomas off the bench, they’d be a killer pick and roll combo, but we’ll see if Stevens has the balls to bench a player of his standing. There are too many bigs on this team between Lee, Olynyk, Zeller, Sullinger, and Amir Johnson, much like on the blazers but even worse, so finding minutes for everyone is going to be difficult, especially if they’re going to go small with Crowder at the 4 now and again. Expect a trade. Amir finally gives them a rim protector, which is really big for them. Marcus Smart looks great on D but his offense looks bad: he isn’t even getting to the rim like he did in college. All in all they have a lot of different, complementary skills & a lot of versatility that lets them go super big or super small, but the lack of any transcendent talent is going to bite them in the ass. Unless Ainge makes a big move I see them slipping.

11. Hornets

Batuuuuuuum-shakalaka. Batum will be good for them, with his fruity french dunks and self-satisfied smirks. MKG is a godly defender, much like Tony Allen, but slightly less useless on offense...but now he’s injured, that really, really, sucks. It means they have to start the god awful Jeremy lamb (when they’re not rolling out a double PG lineup with Jeremy Lin, who has actually looked great in preseason, and Kemba Walker). It’s kind of fun to watch Al Jefferson do post moves while smoking a blunt and listening to chopped & screwed albums about purple drank and fried chicken; same vibe. No one will watch them though & they’ll still miss the playoffs. Why hasn’t Jordan suited up yet?!

12. Brooklyn

Unwatchable trash kept afloat by Brook Lopez (until he gets injured). An endless grind of “Iso Joe” hogging the ball year after year, just making the % threshold to keep receiving the ball in a slow, mechanical grind. Analytics show that Jarrett Jack is among the worst PGs in the league, and he’s starting now. They traded away all their promising young guys, and the only youth they have left are multi-team rejects like the undersized Thomas Robinson (another failed Kings draft pick...oops, Lillard went 1 pick after him).

13. Detroit

???

There really isn’t much talent here outside of Drummond. True, there are the makings of a Stan Van Gundy system not unlike the one he implemented when he got Dwight Howard and the magic to the finals. Reggie Jackson is great in the pick and roll, but he isn’t really a good enough shooter for the plan that seems to be in progress here. Jennings was great last year until he tore his achilles: I actually love his game but it really doesn’t lend itself well to a recovery, and the fight with RJ for the starting PG spot is going to confuse things. Are Marcus Morris (the inferior Morris twin) and Ilyasova really gonna give them the shooting they need to climb much higher? Another beleaguered franchise that I don’t think is going anywhere. They might have to trade X and begin again after another disappointing year.

14. Magic

???????

I have little hope for this Roster. A lot of young talent that internet-types tend to lecherously jack off over, but the peices just don’t fit. They actually regressed last year, bottom tier in both defense and offense, even transition defense which is inexcusable for such an atheltic young team. Oladipo, who was absolutely great last season, is a ball dominant SG in the Kobe / Iverson vein, so he doesn’t fit at all with Payton, a Rondo-esque distributor who can’t shoot. Aaron Gordan has a lot of potential as a hyper-athletic Iguodala type, but Harris is a tweener at the four who doesn’t fit at all with Vucevic, a post-up monster who is really, to me, the only lock to still be on the team in a few years. If I was them I’d start moving these peices for one’s that fit better while they still have value.

15. 76ers

Another year without Embiid or Saric. A bunch of D-League guys (though I actually like Canaan). Noel has been beastly, but he really doesn’t fit with Okafor. Lacks spacing, lacks skill, but damn they got a lot of picks coming. Went to a bar in Philly last spring to see my wife who was studying at UPENN at the time: people were actually glumly watching the NBA finals & planning a “draft party.” How sad.

[par73]

"hawks #1"
lol

not only do you start the celtics #10 justification talking about derek lee, but fail to mention brad stevens at all. pathetic really. and to say it's not a justification when you went through their roster cherry picking details means you were attempting to treat me (it is my birthday) to your evaluation of the 2016 boston celtics. i am not amused milk bone !



you just dropped in my myth-player basketball IQ rankings and more of it has to do with your phallic infatuation of derek rose

the bucks are too high and the pistons are too low

[wwo]

I haven't followed the NBA much for many years, but looking at these rankings, is there still talk of things being rigged to make sure a big TV market goes deep into the playoffs?

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

"hawks #1"
lol

They had 60 wins last year and cruised during the last month. They have everyone healthy & a great system for reg season wins, whereas the Cavs are injured and lazy. Not saying they're the best team in the East but they'll prob get up around 60 again this year.

So why lol?

not only do you start the celtics #10 justification talking about derek lee, but fail to mention brad stevens at all. pathetic really. and to say it's not a justification when you went through their roster cherry picking details means you were attempting to treat me (it is my birthday) to your evaluation of the 2016 boston celtics. i am not amused milk bone !

Not trying to make you sad. If you think about it they're not really slipping since they only made the #8 seed because the Pacers and Heat were injured. Thy have a lot of draft picks coming & already a nice core is starting to come together. Honestly after last year's debacle, not getting Justice Windslow because you was too busy trying to get into the play offs, I'd think you be happy with #10 (not embarrassingly low, still get pick)

Happy Birthday btw

you just dropped in my myth-player basketball IQ rankings and more of it has to do with your phallic infatuation of derek rose

Just think it's funny how he's accusing of breaking into a chicks room and gang raper her but the media too scared to report on it, just like they too scared to show that Cuban is a moronic and meddlesome owner because he is rich, etc.

the bucks are too high and the pistons are too low

Pistons starting line up looks fine (Drummond is like 300 pounds and can jump over a house) but Steve Blake is their backup PG...their bench sucks.


The Lakers suck now wwo, it's great.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

If you are not black do not post here.

Well you broke your own rule didn't you, dumbass?
This is why your dad shouldn't let Myth raise his inbred children.

[Pogue]

Wearing sunglasses in a dark place...yeah, that sums up your douchebaggery.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

One day I'll teach what I really do in a dark place, pogue.

[par73]

"hawks #1"
lol

They had 60 wins last year and cruised during the last month. They have everyone healthy & a great system for reg season wins, whereas the Cavs are injured and lazy. Not saying they're the best team in the East but they'll prob get up around 60 again this year.

So why lol?

the loss of carrol gonna be a deeper wound than you'd think
i also think cleveland or bulls will pull #1 before they do

not only do you start the celtics #10 justification talking about derek lee, but fail to mention brad stevens at all. pathetic really. and to say it's not a justification when you went through their roster cherry picking details means you were attempting to treat me (it is my birthday) to your evaluation of the 2016 boston celtics. i am not amused milk bone !

Not trying to make you sad. If you think about it they're not really slipping since they only made the #8 seed because the Pacers and Heat were injured. Thy have a lot of draft picks coming & already a nice core is starting to come together. Honestly after last year's debacle, not getting Justice Windslow because you was too busy trying to get into the play offs, I'd think you be happy with #10 (not embarrassingly low, still get pick)

Happy Birthday btw

it pretty much had everything to do with your disregard in mentioning brad stevens, he's such a key piece for the happenings of that team that if you didn't realize it before i hope you do now
funny i had both evan turner and derek lee on my NBA2k14 fantasy league teams for the celtics, it was a good time.
thanks.

you just dropped in my myth-player basketball IQ rankings and more of it has to do with your phallic infatuation of derek rose

Just think it's funny how he's accusing of breaking into a chicks room and gang raper her but the media too scared to report on it, just like they too scared to show that Cuban is a moronic and meddlesome owner because he is rich, etc.

u really think d.rose needs to break into a chicks room with his friends to get laid ?
i think theres a good reason the media is ignoring it, there's no legitimate proof.
there's even less proof than the ben cheeseburger incident

the bucks are too high and the pistons are too low

Pistons starting line up looks fine (Drummond is like 300 pounds and can jump over a house) but Steve Blake is their backup PG...their bench sucks.

blake had highest assist ratio during preseason by a 2 or 3 assist margin, if you want to disregard him completely for being a bench player on a lakers team that had kobe's usage rate around 40% go right ahead !

The Lakers suck now wwo, it's great.

yeah it is great, fuck u wwo and fuck u lakers

also fuck u rawr

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

Okay I'll go into how fucked up your logic on this other shit is later but...

Brad Stevens is a good coach. In that Terry Stotts / Jeff Hornacek / Frank Vogel tier of relatively young coaches.

But yea, that's definitely 2nd tier, not enough to be worth overshadowing the level of the players.

[Lord---Scary Owl]

Basketball ~ Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it. Dribble ball, throw ball, get 2 or 3 points, other team gets it.


One Team wins 102-100, then you have obsessed mythers comment on how players scored that extra point and they were awarded best black man of the match.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

Um, is it too late to change my pick back to Warriors #1?

What if I add a prediction of a 4peat?

Clippers reached their ceiling when Chris Paul was still a top #5 point guard. They remind me of the 90s cavs.

[Chohan]

Um, is it too late to change my pick back to Warriors #1?

What if I add a prediction of a 4peat?

Clippers reached their ceiling when Chris Paul was still a top #5 point guard. They remind me of the 90s cavs.

The 90's Cavs weren't a team full of choke artists, they just had the unfortunate issue of being eliminated by Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen like 6-7 times.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

I don't think we disagree really, but I'd say at this point we can't call it choking. Clips just never could break through when they were at their peak and now they just don't look good enough to ever make it. The analogy holds: what I'm saying is the Clipps are destined for many more systematic Steph Curry pecker slappings, à la 90s MJ and the Cavs.

What if I add a prediction of a 4peat?

Woa drunk post...but damn does Steph look good these days.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

Also crun, remember when you told me, before LeBron came back, that they were just holding Kyrie out to tank for draft picks?
Not buying it anymore, guy is made of glass.

Top 5 PGs:

1. S Curry
2. R Westbrook
3. D Lillard
4. J Wall
5. C Paul

[par73]

who is this idiot lord scary owl and what is he doing in the nba sports talk thread

go home zak

Okay I'll go into how fucked up your logic on this other shit is later but...

Brad Stevens is a good coach. In that Terry Stotts / Jeff Hornacek / Frank Vogel tier of relatively young coaches.

But yea, that's definitely 2nd tier, not enough to be worth overshadowing the level of the players.

it's cool, when coaches such as greg popovich compliment steven's coaching ability and admit to learning from how steven's was coaching at butler and the success he had there with relatively unknown players, and you disregard that I tend to disregard you, along with your opinion.

does he overshadow the value of the players? you're damn right he does, he chooses who sits and plays every night. get the fuck out of here, the most efficient scorer on the team wasn't even starting until injuries came up. i'm not going to go much further into the importance of brad steven's to the boston celtics and how he may in fact overshadow the actual players he coaches with his prowess, you are either seeing it or you're not. and if you don't see it, you might just be another one of those god forbidden steph curry bandwagon followers. oh my.

how about them clips
more important to the clippers success is blake griffin, than chris paul being a 'top 5 point gaurd in the league'. sounds like everyone is overvaluing the PG role these days due to curry's spotlight performances.
i think milk's first 3 pg's are wonderful concise choices while j wall and c paul are still quality top10 point gaurds i don't think they fill out the remaining two pg spots this year.
enter eric bledsoe and kyle lowry. (reggie jackson might even beat out wall/paul statistically at this point)

speaking of usage rating.
hearing crun call the clippers out to be a group of 'choke artists' makes me wonder if crun considers every team who fails to win the NBA championship a choke artist team, because that's about 15 qualifiers every year.
the last 3 playoffs the clippers have improved their seed in a filthy competitive western conference. oh boo hoo they lost to the rockets, another team you simply chose to write off last year. i think that is the only playoff series the clips have lost while holding a vicegrip on opponents elimination with 3 wins, we have yet to see if they will turn it into artistry.

i think the best part about the 2015-16 clips is that they don't need chris paul to be a top 5 point guard in the NBA to win the championship whereas the past 3-4 seasons they would have.
exciting times.

[Lord---Scary Owl]

I am not Zak. This hurts my feelings deeply that I would be associated with such a monster of an animal.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

it's cool, when coaches such as greg popovich compliment steven's coaching ability and admit to learning from how steven's was coaching at butler and the success he had there with relatively unknown players, and you disregard that I tend to disregard you, along with your opinion.
does he overshadow the value of the players? you're damn right he does, he chooses who sits and plays every night. get the fuck out of here, the most efficient scorer on the team wasn't even starting until injuries came up. i'm not going to go much further into the importance of brad steven's to the boston celtics and how he may in fact overshadow the actual players he coaches with his prowess, you are either seeing it or you're not

So you're saying that Stevens is definitively better than coaches like Vogel, Stotts, Kerr, etc? Cause that's the tier I would put him in, like I said, 2nd tier, not bad but he really hasn't shown me that he's an all time great or anything. If anything he's in the unproven, lower end in that tier, like Hornacek level. If you're putting him up there with Popovic and Carlisle you crazy.

you might just be another one of those god forbidden steph curry bandwagon followers. oh my.

You trippin. If anything, I resent curry for overshadowing Lillard's greatness & find his wholesome image nauseating. But dude, he is already on pace to break the 3 point record for the 3rd year in a row, NBA champion, MVP and looking like he's going to repeat, averaging like 35 points a game...as I write this he just put 25 points up in the 1rst quarter against the Wolves... I'm just being objective here, he's already a hall of fame player & is even better this year than last. Just watch some games dude.

how about them clips
more important to the clippers success is blake griffin, than chris paul being a 'top 5 point gaurd in the league'. sounds like everyone is overvaluing the PG role these days due to curry's spotlight performances.

i think the best part about the 2015-16 clips is that they don't need chris paul to be a top 5 point guard in the NBA to win the championship whereas the past 3-4 seasons they would have.

Blake is in the same boat. He never really managed to dislodge Duncan, Nowinski, Bosh, or Aldridge as the best PF in the league. Now you got Anthony Davis better than him too, the small but stout, clever, shooting Draymond Green reinventing the position, and young Centers who can slide over to the PF looking really dominant (Cousins, but also Karl Anthony Towns who looks absolutely incredible in his first year, like KG in his youth, and even Porzingis beastin). When I say they needed to make waves when Paul was the best PG in the league, I'm also saying they needed to do this when Blake was still a top 5 PF in the league.

I mean...
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c2ZKiMRGp8[/youtube]
...yea, in 2015

i think milk's first 3 pg's are wonderful concise choices while j wall and c paul are still quality top10 point gaurds i don't think they fill out the remaining two pg spots this year.
enter eric bledsoe and kyle lowry. (reggie jackson might even beat out wall/paul statistically at this point)

That's a pretty daring and interesting position. I 100% would keep to conventional wisdom and keep Wall in the top 5, but Lowry has definately impressed me so far this season. Reggie Jackson looks hot but I think it's more due to Drummond turning into neo-Shaq (he's putting up like 20/20 per game wtf?! Like a freight train flying through the air...) He's definately racking up the "Kobe assists." I will admit that it looks like you were right about the Pistons needing to go higher in my rankings.

Don't think Bledsoe is that good, or ever will be more than above average.

[par73]

it's cool, when coaches such as greg popovich compliment steven's coaching ability and admit to learning from how steven's was coaching at butler and the success he had there with relatively unknown players, and you disregard that I tend to disregard you, along with your opinion.
does he overshadow the value of the players? you're damn right he does, he chooses who sits and plays every night. get the fuck out of here, the most efficient scorer on the team wasn't even starting until injuries came up. i'm not going to go much further into the importance of brad steven's to the boston celtics and how he may in fact overshadow the actual players he coaches with his prowess, you are either seeing it or you're not

So you're saying that Stevens is definitively better than coaches like Vogel, Stotts, Kerr, etc? Cause that's the tier I would put him in, like I said, 2nd tier, not bad but he really hasn't shown me that he's an all time great or anything. If anything he's in the unproven, lower end in that tier, like Hornacek level. If you're putting him up there with Popovic and Carlisle you crazy.

tiers upon tiers inside tiers within tiers. tears.
let's digest. i'll start with the last thing you said "with pop and carlisle you crazy"
well first of all i wouldn't even put those two together. kerr knocking on carlisle's door after one season is funny enough. stotts and vogel walked into the head coaching jobs of their respective teams with talent just waiting to bubble up (and it rightfully did: see paul george, damian lillard and lamarcus aldridge). a baby has a lot less definition than an old man regardless but i'll regress.

i think you misunderstood the point i was making about brad stevens. in fact, with the way you're organizing the coaches by tier in response to my celtics evaluation comments, i know you did.
i'm simply telling you, you have your evaluation of the celtics wrong. additionally, their transcendent talent comes with brad stevens (while i. thomas making a pretty good case).

does stotts coach overshadow the value of damien lillard in portland?
did it with aldridge there either? no
vogel and paul george? no
steve kerr and curry? no

brad stevens and.... hmm lets see, who's he really overshadowing? a bunch of mostly no-name players.. lol? yes
oh my bad, david lee (who was a bench warmer in his most successful season, a starter for the new york knicks in his most memorable season, and can run a P&R with a complimentary pg) seems to hold more impact in your celtics' evaluation than stevens. meanwhile you doubt stevens' ability to perform as a coach and bench a player, albiet a former all-star.
you're thinking zen and steven's is thinking motorcycle maintenence here bud, and he constantly limits every players minutes regardless of their previous success. he has before coaching this team as well.

is brad stevens unproven on the nba level? yea, of course. you just compared him with a bunch of coaches who have won at least one nba playoff game in their time. i think the celtics making the playoffs last year was surprising enough to start building some proof. outlooks aside, how stevens ran those butler teams to make the final 4 in college basketball in two consecutive years is very impressive. he's the youngest coach to go to two final fours, and if the proof continues to cement in the limelight, so be it. i don't have the celtics making the playoffs this year either, but teams don't remain healthy 82+ games and sh!t happens. he's just as important to the celtics as say pop is to the spurs, if not perhaps more. yet i don't see any of those other coaches really having an impact on their teams "EV" like that, this season. all of their talent is too well established, 'defined' as you would say


but lets fancy that coach tier system, really carlisle with pop?
pop's tier is the top tier, its legendary to be apart of, you need to get your feet wet in multiple decades.
and that tier encompasses only 3: red auerbach , phil jackson, greg popovich.
that's my tier perspective, and in that perspective, every following tier is irrelevant. kind of like your top-5 at position requirement to produce championship point of view.

you might just be another one of those god forbidden steph curry bandwagon followers. oh my.

You trippin. If anything, I resent curry for overshadowing Lillard's greatness & find his wholesome image nauseating. But dude, he is already on pace to break the 3 point record for the 3rd year in a row, NBA champion, MVP and looking like he's going to repeat, averaging like 35 points a game...as I write this he just put 25 points up in the 1rst quarter against the Wolves... I'm just being objective here, he's already a hall of fame player & is even better this year than last. Just watch some games dude.

SO DEFENSIVE
25 pts against the timberwolves in a single quarter is supposed to be impressive? c'mon man
jokes aside, i'm well aware of curry's transcendent prolific play, especially as of late. don't you realize i play nba dfs?
the fact of the matter is his usage rate is just as out of control as his production and efficiency as a player. i'm not sure if players can be built to last like that, i would not be surprised if he suffered some sort of injury soon. i don't doubt whether he deserves a bandwagon or not either, i've been a fan of him since that golden state playoffs appearance a few years back. i'm just here to bust your chops while you admire the babyfaced AI-steve kerr-chris paul hybrid we have in our midst. i don't want to hear the lillard excuse, curry is better and such is the way shadows fall.

how about them clips
more important to the clippers success is blake griffin, than chris paul being a 'top 5 point gaurd in the league'. sounds like everyone is overvaluing the PG role these days due to curry's spotlight performances.

i think the best part about the 2015-16 clips is that they don't need chris paul to be a top 5 point guard in the NBA to win the championship whereas the past 3-4 seasons they would have.

Blake is in the same boat. He never really managed to dislodge Duncan, Nowinski, Bosh, or Aldridge as the best PF in the league. Now you got Anthony Davis better than him too, the small but stout, clever, shooting Draymond Green reinventing the position, and young Centers who can slide over to the PF looking really dominant (Cousins, but also Karl Anthony Towns who looks absolutely incredible in his first year, like KG in his youth, and even Porzingis beastin). When I say they needed to make waves when Paul was the best PG in the league, I'm also saying they needed to do this when Blake was still a top 5 PF in the league.

I mean...
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c2ZKiMRGp8[/youtube]
...yea, in 2015

dirk is an offensive legend, if you are that impressed by this in 2015 just wait for his next big night.
when you use the term 'best', there can only be one. and by 'one' i don't mean sample size or an eyebrow.
aside from poking fun at your logic, griffin plays and produces much more than any of those players and has been aside from anthony davis. his usage and efficiency is off the charts really.
towns and porzingis look great btw

the league is different now. honestly i wouldn't have minded the clippers letting go of jordan, having blake run center and doc rivers making a strategical overhaul to fit the current uptempo trend flourishing throughout the league where you run faster, smaller line ups. teams such as the spurs and the warriors give the clips trouble because they force them to play small ball regardless.
Paul's hurt, all the time. he's going to be restricted during the season so i find it kind of a bummer knowing he won't be 'playing' until march. but if players like curry and harden are wasted by march and paul is fresh, I think they could hit WCF or even make/take the finals.

i think milk's first 3 pg's are wonderful concise choices while j wall and c paul are still quality top10 point gaurds i don't think they fill out the remaining two pg spots this year.
enter eric bledsoe and kyle lowry. (reggie jackson might even beat out wall/paul statistically at this point)

That's a pretty daring and interesting position. I 100% would keep to conventional wisdom and keep Wall in the top 5, but Lowry has definately impressed me so far this season. Reggie Jackson looks hot but I think it's more due to Drummond turning into neo-Shaq (he's putting up like 20/20 per game wtf?! Like a freight train flying through the air...) He's definately racking up the "Kobe assists." I will admit that it looks like you were right about the Pistons needing to go higher in my rankings.

Don't think Bledsoe is that good, or ever will be more than above average.

jackson's been great man ! nice to see it's working out in detriot for him. when westbrook was out last year you should have been able to peep this guy on the come up.
drummond's fucking insane and i like him more than davis, hordford, howard or cousins at the moment as best big in the league
while you're more or less right about bledsoe, he's producing well for a sun's team that could break a late seed in the western conference playoff slate. they play at a blistering pace. he's kind of fallen back to reality however, although the first few games of the season looked damn promising.
westbrook playing insane as well, don't forget about the thunder! they pretty much in same boat as the clippers

[enc]

isnt nba this sport where tony parker beats everyone?

[sasper]

what is this idiot NBA and what is it doing in the myth forums

[sasper]

I stole my dad's wallet and put $200 on Ronda Rousey. Now my dad's gonna find out and beat my ass worse then Holly Holms

[Lord---Scary Owl]

I stole my dad's wallet and put $200 on John Cena. Now my dad's gonna find out and tell me I didn't take enough