Myth World Cup CHAMPIONS™

Zak · Post by **Zak** » 06 Aug 2013, 15:27

Arsenal wrote:
Zak wrote:
Arsenal wrote:They were also, in my opinion, the only team relevant when there was actually competition in this game.
What exactly does "the only team relevant when there was actually competition in this game." mean? Do you mean 2004? NP wasn't relevant?

Was BME relevant in 2003, 2005, and 2006, or was 2004 the only time "there was actually competition in this game"?
What I meant by this was that BME was the only team playing when there was actually a substantial player base, and even in 2004 it was dwindling rapidly.

I'm sure I'm going to annoy a lot of people here, but all these teams reached their prime when there was a player base of maybe 1000 or less, and in the later years significantly less.

Right but BME won their first MWC against NP, who won MWC2k1, and narrowly lost the MWC2k3 finals. I don't know about MWC2k3, but in 2001 there were a shitload more teams than in 2004. Not sure how you can consider 2004 more competitive if your criteria is player base.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 06 Aug 2013, 17:00

East Wind tmnt wrote:Also in '10 - Ducky actually did a good job until some no puss shit in the final des game. Again we came back too from being down 40% on an elimination.. that's a testament to us (and a fuck up by tirri HEHEHE). Again in '06... its not as if np was bad to barely win vs bia, bia played well. VS a stacked np/cox team too...Rab, tirri, arz, cw - right off the bat comes to mind. Similar np/cox team won '07 too. If you want to actually base any of this on fact and you'd have to watch all these teams in action... we're all guilty of using memory or just going by the result. Also another way is to go man for man on each roster and see who matches up against who to see who has the edge.

Meh, seen the films several times, NC 2010 was less than impressive to me and TBC was missing key players in the finals and kept using some of their worst players in games even though better ones were available to them.

On the other hand the bia vs np series is one of the best of all time. Some very entertaining films with a mix of some greats plays and some horrible blunders. That was the true finals matchup that year imo.

East Wind tmnt · Post by **East Wind tmnt** » 06 Aug 2013, 17:03

I think Arz left in SD because of the time, but everyone was there during normal portion

Honkey · Post by **Honkey** » 06 Aug 2013, 19:03

Tirri and arz both left. Limp saved you guys by a heads up tag that was literally 1/10th of a second in time, and sd consisted of the desert strat a bunch of back and forth games and the last map was the infamous gk fire alarm where we were too stupid to ask for repost. The reason bone got a bunch of shit for that match was a- the desert strategy and b- him picking light maps for sd when we had far superior trowers on our roster.

Lizard King · Post by **Lizard King** » 06 Aug 2013, 22:26

Myrk wrote:The real best team on myth was civil/sf. They only stopped winning every tournament they ever entered because they got bored of the game and quit, and had a solid 2 years of winning literally every tournament they played in.That was a good amount of tournaments with a lot of good teams playing in them, full of people who actually regularly played Myth. MoR picked up the reins for 1 tournament and then NP became the team to beat, then of course they stopped giving a shit themselves and someone else took up the reins (BME). And so on and so forth. Is any team post 2000 really in the same league as civil/sf were as far as utter dominance? No. I'm sure had they cared enough to continue playing Myth they'd still be at the top.

Yep. Any of the great older teams, had they stuck around, would still be at the top and myth's history would be much different. Winning a tournament was also much harder then than it is now. You had tournaments packed with dozens of good/competitive teams rather than the same old 3-4 competitive teams with 10 teams in the tourney max. Not even comparable. I'm sure 5 years from now when (if) there's a mwc there'll be 4 teams and someone will claim one is the most talented team that's ever played myth. Well no shit if they stuck around for 2 decades.

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 07 Aug 2013, 00:38

Asmodian wrote:
With Myth World Cup coming to a end in the next two weeks it got me thinking, who is the best MWC champion team? (since 2004)
Let the debate/discussion begin.
reading comprehension fail.

Believe what you want about stormrider or any number of players, but the reality is a bunch of decent players are deemed "good" or even "great" sometimes because they always join a top roster. It is very very easy to look good on a roster that in good enough to win mwc if you don't play like a retard.

I actually like stormrider,migranie and verminix, but players that have been overrated in the past like them are just a result of their situation.

I love it when players talk garbage about players who were always far superior to themselves.
If you think storm was overrated you either didn't play with or vs him much back then or your're just trolling again.
Storm and Cave were pretty similar in skill level back in the day it's just stormrider always had to captain.

More than half the people who talk retarded shit about players "back in the day" or whatever either
(a) Weren't even around then
(b) Were around back then and sucked balls and wouldn't have a clue besides those players probably roflstomped them if they ever played them.
(c) Were that young they probably didn't even have hair on their sack yet and their opinion holds no weight.

The only players who could legitimately talk shit about old school players are really guys like myrk, myself etc etc.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 07 Aug 2013, 00:44

yea except films don't lie flat. i can watch the film of the shit from back then as if it just happened yesterday. so none of your points matter. that's what films are for.

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 07 Aug 2013, 00:55

I can watch pretty much any film from any mwc final ever and pretty easily point out truly terrible stuff that has existed since myth2 has existed.
Good day to you sir.

dac · Post by **dac** » 07 Aug 2013, 00:56

Flatline wrote:The only players who could legitimately talk shit about old school players are really guys like myrk, myself etc etc.

giving yourself special privileges? cute.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 07 Aug 2013, 01:09

More than half the people who talk retarded shit about players "back in the day" or whatever either
(a) Weren't even around then
(b) Were around back then and sucked balls and wouldn't have a clue besides those players probably roflstomped them if they ever played them.
(c) Were that young they probably didn't even have hair on their sack yet and their opinion holds no weight.

The only players who could legitimately talk shit about old school players are really guys like myrk, myself etc etc.

1. I was never talking shit about storm rider, just pointing out that he was only a decent player. Sorry I don't nut ride my past teammates and overrate them just to have some type of bromance like you.

(a) Was around
(b) Zzz finished with relatively good placements in every mwc I played in from 2005 forward. It is much harder to lead a team and do good with 2-3 ballers than to piggy back some stacked team to get 2nd or 3rd place. Proof, Ghengis Kahn this year and I have much respect for him for making a competitive team of lesser players and still doing well.
(c) cute, resulting to name calling because you have nothing to back up your argument.

The only people who can legitimately talk crap about old school players are people who never won a MWC? Delusional much?

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 07 Aug 2013, 01:20

Flatline wrote:I can watch pretty much any film from any mwc final ever and pretty easily point out truly terrible stuff that has existed since myth2 has existed.
Good day to you sir.

obviously this is a retarded cop-out since you now realize how retarded your statement was. you can't find the same truly terrible stuff from the earlier MWC's, in the later MWC's. older MWC's had terribleness on a whole other level. Like I said before, nobody could master this game in 3-4 years, especially when no other game like it existed before.

you want to act like your memory of events is the only memory of events that matters, when in-fact nobody's memory matters. there is video proof of everything we are talking about here.

you have never won an MWC, and you have never been a top player, so you are hardly an authority on myth skill. you cling to mwc2001 since that was your ONLY glory year in 15 years of myth, while everyone else has had several glory years since then.

Oh and about the theory that every good player back then would still be just as good today, that is garbage. Some players no-doubt would have continued to improve as they kept playing and would still be great today, just as some people say. But not all of them. There is also no-doubt that other's would not have adapted and been able to improve as well as everyone else. And that is just a verifiable fact of life wherever you go when people deal with change. Obviously some people adapt to the change better than others.

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 07 Aug 2013, 01:22

dac wrote:
Flatline wrote:The only players who could legitimately talk shit about old school players are really guys like myrk, myself etc etc.
giving yourself special privileges? cute.

all Trow Council members have special privileges.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 07 Aug 2013, 01:27

the answer is civil order
http://www.macobserver.com/mwc99/dynami ... op/7/7T01/
first repeat team ever
both finals beating opponents in sudden death,
first effective use of 'name changing' to win a championship (2000)
http://www.mythgaming.net/mwc2000/news/

played in a total of 25 mwc finals games BEFORE bungie.net closed.

mwc finals record of 14 wins, 3 ties, and 8 losses.
not to mention being down a game in sudden death to come back to win two games to become champions. Two years in a row
can't touch that.

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 07 Aug 2013, 01:39

Asmodian wrote:
1. I was never talking shit about storm rider, just pointing out that he was only a decent player. Sorry I don't nut ride my past teammates and overrate them just to have some type of bromance like you.

(a) Was around
(b) Zzz finished with relatively good placements in every mwc I played in from 2005 forward. It is much harder to lead a team and do good with 2-3 ballers than to piggy back some stacked team to get 2nd or 3rd place. Proof, Ghengis Kahn this year and I have much respect for him for making a competitive team of lesser players and still doing well.
(c) cute, resulting to name calling because you have nothing to back up your argument.

The only people who can legitimately talk crap about old school players are people who never won a MWC? Delusional much?

idiot please.
Even though storm hasn't played worth a shit for years he was still a better player when he was active than you have ever been.
You lead teams of 2-3 ballers because you were one of those players who talked endless amount of shit about how good you are blah blah blah yet never had the skills to back any of it up therefore you couldn't get better players to team with you. That's your problem.
Back then most the times people teamed with people they generally liked and were friends or such with. Most of tcox would team every year because for the most part most teammates liked each other. There's always a couple of exceptions.

Yes because someone won a mwc 2010 or something that gives their opinion on players who haven't played since 2000-2003 or so credibility. Makes perfect sense to me.
Myrk or say tirri didn't win a mwc till quite a while after they were top players and won many other tourneys. Some of the stuff you come up with is good for laughs though

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 07 Aug 2013, 01:50

myrk and tirri may have won tournies flat, but which ones did you win?

Also I am pretty sure asmo is better now than storm was in his prime.

and if we are going to give civil order props, then I say we have to give Renwood props too since they must have been about the same caliber players during that time period.

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 07 Aug 2013, 01:51

Giant Killer General wrote:
Flatline wrote:I can watch pretty much any film from any mwc final ever and pretty easily point out truly terrible stuff that has existed since myth2 has existed.
Good day to you sir.
obviously this is a retarded cop-out since you now realize how retarded your statement was. you can't find the same truly terrible stuff from the earlier MWC's, in the later MWC's. older MWC's had terribleness on a whole other level. Like I said before, nobody could master this game in 3-4 years, especially when no other game like it existed before.

you want to act like your memory of events is the only memory of events that matters, when in-fact nobody's memory matters. there is video proof of everything we are talking about here.

you have never won an MWC, and you have never been a top player, so you are hardly an authority on myth skill. you cling to mwc2001 since that was your ONLY glory year in 15 years of myth, while everyone else has had several glory years since then.

Oh and about the theory that every good player back then would still be just as good today, that is garbage. Some players no-doubt would have continued to improve as they kept playing and would still be great today, just as some people say. But not all of them. There is also no-doubt that other's would not have adapted and been able to improve as well as everyone else. And that is just a verifiable fact of life wherever you go when people deal with change. Obviously some people adapt to the change better than others.

hahahahaha
It's truly a shame you only learnt to be good at this game 7 or 8 years after it's use-by-date.
You would have been quite the forum personality back then when forums were actually active and mwc had more than 50 players.
With you and asmo each hanging off one of my nuts I'm not quite sure what I'll do if someone else wants to as well. Unfortunately I only have 2 nuts.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 07 Aug 2013, 01:54

I was the 8th best 1v1er in the game, during Chohan's prime, arguably the most competitive era of myth. This is going by both my seeding (based on average community rankings, i.e. the community's perception of my ability, already established) and placement (my actual ranking) in the 7 penis rising 1v1 tournament.

So I was a top player by then, rewind a few years and I was still good.

I am quite sure I surpassed you around 2003.

Try again.

What tournaments did you win flat? I wonder if you ever learned to be good at this game.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 07 Aug 2013, 01:58

Wigga please,
I made teams and never tried jumping on a top team because I find making a team or playing for an underdog much more enjoyable and challenging(especially on a game that has been lacking a player population post bungie).

The only time you were ever considered good is when 90% of the people were playing on dial up and still figuring out how to play the game. The reality is some of those players that were really good back then in now days terms are terrible. If some of those old schoolers continued playing I'm sure many would have adapted and still be top players, but on the other hand there would have been some just like you, living off of their glory days from beating up on a bunch of teenagers playing on dial up

par73 · Post by **par73** » 07 Aug 2013, 01:59

to put civil order in comparison with renwood is just terrible, but i guess you could compare renwood to you for the same reasons (i.e. winning a myth world cup).

renwood won a myth world cup on THE FALLEN LORDs, not even the same game
also in a single elimination tournament

if civil played the same rules ren did, they would ahve been eliminated before the finals

i have been on 4 championship teams and still the nod goes to civil you can't top 25 games in the finals, two come from behind, from the bottom bracket sudden death wins.

it is a bar no team has ever reached and they did it when there were about 96 teams.

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 07 Aug 2013, 02:03

Giant Killer General wrote:myrk and tirri may have won tournies flat, but which ones did you win?

TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS + ASMO's DRAFT TOURNEY. VERY CREDIBLE WINS I MUST SAY.
I also placed highly in god cop's 3DA invitational tournament.

Also I am pretty sure asmo is better now than storm was in his prime.

hahaha keep on going. don't stop now.

and if we are going to give civil order props, then I say we have to give Renwood props too since they must have been about the same caliber players during that time period.

Do I really need to explain that the tfl scene was quite different to m2?
REALLY?

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 07 Aug 2013, 02:05

wait flat, do you mean to tell me you literally never won any kind of myth tournament prior to asmo's draft tourney last year? seriously?

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 07 Aug 2013, 02:06

to put civil order in comparison with renwood is just terrible, but i guess you could compare renwood to you for the same reasons (i.e. winning a myth world cup).

renwood won a myth world cup on THE FALLEN LORDs, not even the same game
also in a single elimination tournament

if civil played the same rules ren did, they would ahve been eliminated before the finals

i have been on 4 championship teams and still the nod goes to civil you can't top 25 games in the finals, two come from behind, from the bottom bracket sudden death wins.

it is a bar no team has ever reached and they did it when there were about 96 teams.

The original thread stated 2004+, why? because I do not believe the game was very evolved at the time civil was winning tournaments. Sure they were a great team for their era and historically speaking probably the best ever, but if you took that same civil team and gave them time to rust of and learn the new tactics today I highly doubt that a majority of their players would even be able to get good at the game.

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 07 Aug 2013, 02:16

Asmodian wrote:Wigga please,
I made teams and never tried jumping on a top team because I find making a team or playing for an underdog much more enjoyable and challenging(especially on a game that has been lacking a player population post bungie).

The only time you were ever considered good is when 90% of the people were playing on dial up and still figuring out how to play the game. The reality is some of those players that were really good back then in now days terms are terrible. If some of those old schoolers continued playing I'm sure many would have adapted and still be top players, but on the other hand there would have been some just like you, living off of their glory days from beating up on a bunch of teenagers playing on dial up

haha.
Try playing on dialup in Australia in USA hosts 98% of the time idiot.
Back then none of the top teams would have let you "jump on them" even if you paid them money. Can you work out why? Surprise me Asmo.

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 07 Aug 2013, 02:22

Giant Killer General wrote:wait flat, do you mean to tell me you literally never won any kind of myth tournament prior to asmo's draft tourney last year? seriously?

(1) Regardless whether it was last year or not. That was a tourney win. So I see you changed your line of response from "no wins ever" to something else. funny.
(2) TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS - probably 8 years or something before you ever won anything.

keep going.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 07 Aug 2013, 02:22

Oh so you played on dial up as well? Just goes to show that it wasn't even legit back then, if your units don't move right when you click then it completely limits what you can do in this game and puts a huge barrier as to how good one can get at the game.

oh, I absolutely know why, because I have never been one to suck good players d like you. In fact I have done the opposite and talk massive trash which has never helped my chances of getting invited to a top team because they don't want team drama.

Edit: Anyways I don't mind you flat you are a cool guy at times despite riding my nuts lately. I am not "trolling" you. I have always thought of you as an average player, just my honest assessment. If you or someone else wants to disagree with me on how I see or rank a players skills so be it.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 07 Aug 2013, 02:25

'the game was not very evolved at the time civil was winning tournaments'

well the game was probably at its peak of evolution, really
more and more players were getting better connections
more and more strategies and ways to play maps were being felt out.
not to mention you had everyone at certain ages in their lives (i.e. people were younger 10 years ago), if the players of civil played myth 2 now at the same age they did
when they played, then there is no reason they could not have 'gotten good at the game'.
pathfinding, melee algorithms and other aspects of player control were also different on earlier patches than they are now on 1.8.0
the players on civil also won more than mwc and numerous other 2team tournaments (what like 8+ total?), but also 1v1, ffa, tffa and co-op tournaments.

these guys paved the way for everything you play for today and you are still so bitter about not having had enough glory on bungie.net to acknowledge they had already been there and done that.

civil are the true champions
not to mention they stopped playing this game long ago and stopped investing their time in a game that would continue to fizzle out long after they ever thought it would have kept breathing.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 07 Aug 2013, 02:30

I'm not 'hating' on civil. They were great for their time and historically speaking the greatest myth2 team ever.

well the game was probably at its peak of evolution

I'm not going to argue any further about this. With a comment like that ^^^ I can not take you serious at all.

I wonder if people who say stuff like you have ever truly watched any of these old films, I have tried watching these civil mwc finals and it is smash my face bad, everything about it: The clicking, decision making, strategies, communication; the list goes on.

My best comparison would be watching a 7vs7 of 14 King Carnages

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 07 Aug 2013, 02:30

Asmodian wrote:
oh, I absolutely know why, because I have never been one to suck good players d like you. In fact I have done the opposite and talk massive trash which has never helped my chances of getting invited to a top team because they don't want team drama.

WRONG ANSWER. DISAPPOINT.

I'll spell it out.
They wouldn't want someone who talks massive trash, has less than mediocre skills to back their trash talk up and would be utter team cancer.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 07 Aug 2013, 02:31

I was obviously joking when I said that you never won anything. I would have expected you to have won something, hence my surprise.

When was tournament of champions? and what kind of tournament was that? large 2 team I am guessing, you never could win an individual or even small team tournament. players like you had to hide behind better players on large teams where your non-factor would be a non-factor. don't worry though, that's the story of many myther's myth-lives.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 07 Aug 2013, 02:38

Flatline wrote:
Asmodian wrote:
oh, I absolutely know why, because I have never been one to suck good players d like you. In fact I have done the opposite and talk massive trash which has never helped my chances of getting invited to a top team because they don't want team drama.
WRONG ANSWER. DISAPPOINT.

I'll spell it out.
They wouldn't want someone who talks massive trash, has less than mediocre skills to back their trash talk up and would be utter team cancer.

I seem to make you look terrible every time we go against each other over the past two years, so if I'm mediocre I wonder what that makes you.

would be utter team cancer

This is pure speculation and is the only reason I did not get invites from top teams, but do I care? Absolutely not. You can go ask any teammate I have teamed with in MWC and ask them if I was a bad teammate during it and the answer will be no [infact the opposite is true I am a great teammate that communicates,shows up for matches and is willing to sacrifice for the greater good of the team). The one exception August.

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 07 Aug 2013, 02:52

Giant Killer General wrote:I was obviously joking when I said that you never won anything. I would have expected you to have won something, hence my surprise.

When was tournament of champions? and what kind of tournament was that? large 2 team I am guessing, you never could win an individual or even small team tournament. players like you had to hide behind better players on large teams where your non-factor would be a non-factor. don't worry though, that's the story of many myther's myth-lives.

haha
Yet again you talk garbage about something you know nothing about and are wrong again.
It was a mixed tournament. Each round you would play 2x 2 team games (3vs3) + a set of 5 ffa games.
Every round my team would do bad in the 2 team games and every round I would win the ffa part of the match and win that round.
So actually the reality was quite the opposite of your thesis since my individual skill in the ffa part of the matches won me that tournament.
NICE TRY THOUGH.

And im not sure exactly what year it was but probably 2000 or 2001. More likely 2000.
Toxyn may remember it since he was in it too and it was actualy a rather funny final since MORDUR (who was a member of aliiance and monkey island in 2k1 mwc) hateplayed the fuck out of me in the final on the last ffa game to the point of giving free tags and such to the 2nd place team etc etc and the final had to be replayed because of it.

Regardless without the hateplay/cheating in the original final I would have won and won the replayed final as well.

SUCH GLORY

EDIT: OH ACTUALLY I WON "THE BLOOD TOURNAMENT" TOO ON NP
forgot about that one.

Edit: Actually it might have been called tournament of heroes not "champions"

par73 · Post by **par73** » 07 Aug 2013, 03:13

Asmodian wrote:I'm not 'hating' on civil. They were great for their time and historically speaking the greatest myth2 team ever.

well the game was probably at its peak of evolution
I'm not going to argue any further about this. With a comment like that ^^^ I can not take you serious at all.

I wonder if people who say stuff like you have ever truly watched any of these old films, I have tried watching these civil mwc finals and it is smash my face bad, everything about it: The clicking, decision making, strategies, communication; the list goes on.

My best comparison would be watching a 7vs7 of 14 King Carnages

the peak of evolution, i.e. so many organisms adapting in so many different possibilities.
in fact, if myth never went through that period and obvious peak of evolution it probably wouldn't have survived post-bungie.net

you say civils play is smash your face bad, yet 10+ years later they still have more tournament wins than you and you keep playing.
smash my face bad.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 07 Aug 2013, 03:39

I must say this hurts coming from a 4 baller (LOL) that posted a .55 dmg ratio just a week ago as I helped send you to the bottom bracket.

Honkey · Post by **Honkey** » 07 Aug 2013, 03:40

Asmo is a good teammate.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 07 Aug 2013, 04:46

Perhaps it was "Champions of Myth"? I don't see "Tournament of Heroes" or "of Champions" in the tournament list here: http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/Myth_II:_S ... ournaments

Champions of Myth December 2000-March 2001 Strike Northern Paladins Batman & Robin

The Blood Tournament March-May 2001 Sir Mick et al. Northern Paladins The Wight Foundation

Looks like NP won those. How you weaseled onto NP is anyone's guess, but good job. I am sure your non-factor was a great non-factor with them. Also, those are all listed as 2 team tournaments.

Myrk · Post by **Myrk** » 07 Aug 2013, 06:09

I'd just like to point out that you can take any replay from any teamgame ever and make an argument for how bad one or both of the teams are. Big team games are by nature chaotic, and obviously noone has a hive-mind connection with their teammates.

Cave · Post by **Cave** » 07 Aug 2013, 07:00

Giant Killer General wrote:Also I am pretty sure asmo is better now than storm was in his prime.

:o

Rikkµ · Post by **Rikkµ** » 07 Aug 2013, 07:23

I still think us winning MWC '98 was a great achievement given that there were 80 teams in MWC that year. *RF* carries on as long Renwood isn't driving

grim · Post by **grim** » 07 Aug 2013, 08:51

I have read this entire thread through and it turns out there's absolutely nothing new here that I didn't adress in my article 3 years ago.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 07 Aug 2013, 08:51

par73 wrote:the answer is civil order
http://www.macobserver.com/mwc99/dynami ... op/7/7T01/
first repeat team ever
both finals beating opponents in sudden death,
first effective use of 'name changing' to win a championship (2000)
http://www.mythgaming.net/mwc2000/news/

played in a total of 25 mwc finals games BEFORE bungie.net closed.

mwc finals record of 14 wins, 3 ties, and 8 losses.
not to mention being down a game in sudden death to come back to win two games to become champions. Two years in a row
can't touch that.

Kind of surprised there's no Civil poll option tbh.

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 07 Aug 2013, 09:19

grim wrote:I have read this entire thread through and it turns out there's absolutely nothing new here that I didn't adress in my article 3 years ago.

it's like Christmas.
Comes around once a year.

Honkey · Post by **Honkey** » 07 Aug 2013, 12:10

Please post link to grims article.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 07 Aug 2013, 17:43

http://myth2.com/article.php?id=3

Zak · Post by **Zak** » 07 Aug 2013, 17:45

Armageddon had gekko too I just realized!

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 07 Aug 2013, 19:07

NewMutator wrote:
par73 wrote:the answer is civil order
http://www.macobserver.com/mwc99/dynami ... op/7/7T01/
first repeat team ever
both finals beating opponents in sudden death,
first effective use of 'name changing' to win a championship (2000)
http://www.mythgaming.net/mwc2000/news/

played in a total of 25 mwc finals games BEFORE bungie.net closed.

mwc finals record of 14 wins, 3 ties, and 8 losses.
not to mention being down a game in sudden death to come back to win two games to become champions. Two years in a row
can't touch that.
Kind of surprised there's no Civil poll option tbh.

For anyone arguing about how great civil is, my mind has actually completely changed on them.

Here is the reality,

Summary
Should they have won MWC 1999? Maybe, maybe not. The reality of the situation is the scoring was beyond terrible and I would be incredibly frustrated to compete In this tournament as a competitor, not knowing at the end of the day if I was truly the best team in the tournament based on results like the ones below.

http://forum.gateofstorms.net/posting.p ... =post&f=21
Round 4: Civil ties BMF 2-1-2, Civil receives a defeat due to a horrible scoring system (I was tempted to leave this information out but decided to be fair in my analysis)

Round 6: Civil ties Gtm 1-1-1, but are rewarded a win due to a horrible scoring system

Summary
Should they have won MWC 2000? Absolutely not. They should have been eliminated in the quarter finals...

http://www.mythgaming.net/mwc2000/brackets/top.shtml
Round 3: Civil played TWF and lost in games 1-1-3, but won (LOL) 47-45 due to the horrible scoring system

Round 5: Civil loses to Spin in games 2-3 and is sent to the bottom bracket [Should have been eliminated at this point]

Civil for sure had an impact on myth 2 and helped evolve the game into what it has become today, but to say they are the best team ever [even historically speaking] after seeing such absurd results and actually watching films is extremely false to me. [these laughable results in their mwc "wins" makes me wonder how legit some of their other tournament wins were]

I know people are going to say, "but if the scoring system was different they would have played differently and blah,blah,blah..." or some other argument but I'm not going to argue anymore about this topic because there is no end result. You can decide for yourself based on what I posted and actually watching their films and judge for yourself.

Edit:

PS: By all means go ahead an try to shout cast any of civil's close MWC match victories newmutator, but I warn you that you will not be able to get through that shoutcast before you throw your computer against the wall.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 07 Aug 2013, 19:19

The poll question is: Who is the best MWC champion? It's a subjective question, and as such I find it puzzling that you don't allow answers you disagree with.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 07 Aug 2013, 19:25

That is not the reason I left them out at all. I said it clear 2004+ for a few reasons, but the main one to not have this thread turn into an argument that comes up every year which is, "were players better 10 years ago or now" (which the thread has become)

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 07 Aug 2013, 20:05

Might that have something to do with the seemingly arbitrary cut off point of 2004?

wwo · Post by **wwo** » 07 Aug 2013, 20:19

I think it just makes it easier to answer. It's in the same area as comparing the best NFL franchises: 60's Packers? 70's Steelers? 80's 49ers? 90's Cowboys? 00's Patriots? They all dominated their eras, but if you break them down and nitpick you can make their flaws overstated as well. It's also similar to any internet poll about any sports' Best Players Ever; current or recent players are always going to be overhyped because it's an instinctive bias.

Captain · Post by **Captain** » 07 Aug 2013, 20:22