GoS vs Mariusnet - A Case Study in Myth Power Struggles

A single berserk reached us yesterday, after having come all the way over the mountains from the city of Willow, fourteen hundred miles away. He delivered to Alric a single package the size of a man's fist, wrapped in rags, and refuses to talk with anyone about events in the West.
Giant Killer General
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GoS vs Mariusnet - A Case Study in Myth Power Struggles

Postby Giant Killer General » 23 Sep 2016, 08:28

In thinking about the possible threat of a future power struggle over the future successor of the GoS forums, I was reminded of a similar power struggle that occurred in the debate between GoS vs Mariusnet. I took a trip down memory lane in the one big epic thread that kind of encompassed the entire clash between the proponents of each server at the time. Check it out again, it is well worth the read, especially with the benefit of hindsight now to see who turned out to be on the right side of history:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=848

It is amazing to see how strong the opposition was at that brief moment in time, and also how quickly it was all put to rest. To summarize, we witnessed an unlikely alliance between Kilg and Cu who became the 2 stars of the opposition to GoS, becoming the most vocal proponents of shutting down GoS in favor of forcing the community to stick only with mariusnet (what we can now all recognize as what would have become a disastrous decision). Other nasty opposition against GoS came from people like Limp, Nine, Ghengis, and enculator, and clear but less severe opposition from many others such as tirri, grim, and karma. On the other side, the most vocal proponents were punkuser, myself, newmutator, and maybe dac, with some others having some clear but less vocal support as well.

Judging from that thread alone you would have guessed that GoS was overwhelmingly unpopular. Yet everyone transferred to the new server pretty quickly and seamlessly, even new / inactive players, disproving all of the oppositions' fears, while Mariusnet's site would continue to stay down, and the server would go down again for another 5 1/2 months soon after, confirming / vindicating all of GoS proponents concerns. It basically all went down pretty much as I predicted at the time:

Giant Killer General wrote:here is what is going to most likely happen:

-people are going to bitch about 2 servers for the next several months.
-some people will even nerd rage and commit myth suicide over it (hi enc). these individuals would rather push to see the myth community die than have it go a way different than what they want. in their eyes, if they can't have their fun their way, then no one should be able to. and though they won't succeed in killing myth by quitting, they would nonetheless celebrate if they did, and say "I TOLD YOU SO!" these are the most sensitive, bitter, butthurt, spiteful individuals you can imagine.
-none of the bitching or rage quitting will matter, both servers will continue to run, it is a fact of myth life now
-punkuser will slowly add features to GoS
-there will be the dead offseason after mwc, and possibly another post mwc draft tournament of sorts, where everything will be quiet again for a while
-punkuser will continue adding little features to GoS
-by next spring all the features punk has worked on will have added up to an undeniable significance by now, possibly even a real, working, legit, ranked system (something marius never had), or some other really cool shit.
-after a year GoS will have enough exposure where all relevant players are now aware of GoS' existence and how to get there, or know someone that can help them get there. some GoS naysayers will have become converts, solidifying a clear majority in favor for GoS.
-next MWC will be hosted on GoS, putting the spike in the coffin and killing off this issue once and for all.
-mariusnet will continue to be up albiet neglected, and used by certain cliques of players that completely isolate themselves from the rest of the myth community (mazzers, co-opers, newbs, etc., marius was built by them, and was always meant to be for them, it is the home they deserve and where they belong).
-all the GoS naysayers will look very dumb, some will continue to rage quit.
-the myth community will continue to live on

with 1 caveat: the longer the marius website stays down, the more this entire process accelerates.


I think the big lesson and takeaway from that whole situation was the realization of just how grossly irrational people are to be averse to any sort of change (often due to thinking only in the short-term rather than long-term), and also just how stupid most people are in general, even including people that you know are quite smart, or at least were previously perceived that way (among the supposedly smarter members of the GoS opposition, it was easily the dumbest argument I ever saw them cling to in the entire history of myth). If we had followed the overwhelming emotional negative reactions of the GoS opposition, it would have obviously led to disastrous decisions for the community, even while those same people were claiming that GoS proponents would kill the community themselves by promoting GoS.

Luckily, GoS opposition evaporated soon after that thread due to the mariusnet site continuing to stay down, and the server later going down for several months. I think everyone today from the opposition back then pretty much takes back the words they said back then (even though they may not want to openly acknowledge such a concession). Okay maybe everyone except kilgrath, who actually believed that playmyth.net and mariusnet never coexisted together at the same time:

Lizard King wrote:I asked politely :)

GKG, Punk, Newmutator (whoever the fuck that is) shut the fuck up. You three clearly know nothing of this community or it's past. Myth has survivedy throughout the years due to the fact that there has been one server throughout it's timeline. Bungienet, then playmyth, then marius. If there had been multiple servers throughout myths timeline the community would have been fractured and myth would most likely not exist today. Having 12 players on each server doesn't help the community or new players logging on whatsoever. Please, collectively pull yours heads out of eachothers asses as the empirical evidence is more than enough to know you three haven't the slightest clue. You can barely get a game now on either server, this is hardly the experience anyone is aiming for. I'll ask again, please shut down your unestablished pop up tent of a test server, the real one is back after needed maintenance. The day may come when it's required, but that certainly isn't now.


Giant Killer General wrote:oh sweet mother of god I am going to have fun with you right now.

marius only came after playmyth? oooohhhh REAAAALLLLLYYYY.

obviously by your post you do not realize that for about 5 or so years mariusnet and playmyth both existed at the same time.

So how about you shut the fuck up.
You clearly know nothing of this community or it's past.
Please, collectively pull your head out of your ass.

oh god I could go on and on, your entire post is a fucking goldmine, just re-read that shit, HILARIOUS

like a lamb to the wolves

retard.


Ouch. He doubled down later in the same thread and lost again, then promptly exited the thread in embarrassment soon after. Noticing a pattern yet?

Apparently 6-7 months later, kilg still wasn't over his butthurt yet, and continued to post threads attempting to cling to Mariusnet after it had already been long dead and gone:

Jan, 2014 - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1751 - "Still nothing being done to improve this server"

Lizard King wrote:I come back from a hiatus and all I see is punkuser still making moronic excuses for his laziness and getting nothing done. He can have the entire community say they want something that would improve myth's status, such as a ranking system, yet is somehow contrary to the idea. It's stupid to the point where the only realistic explanation is that he's too lazy or simply incapable. Neither would surprise me since he's demonstrated both from the inception of GoS.


Apparently the above was posted months before ranked was implemented.

Feb, 2014 - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1810 - "Mariusnet up and running, fully functional"

Lizard King wrote:From PPe:

"Ok, so it has taken me WAAAAY to long to get to this, but I just needed the right combination of available time, motivation, and of course, I had to remember how the heck to troubleshoot metaserver startup issues..... BUT, I have finally gotten Mariusnet back up and running. The problem was a corrupted player profile (actually, just one among the thousands) that was keeping the metaserver from loading. I deleted that user file and in conjunction with a few other tweaks, it is back to life.

The Server Status widget is working, so you can see who is playing online, but ranking is not currently being processed. It looks like there are several corrupted database tables that I will have to pour over. I think that most all of them (sans possibly one) are transient data only used during the processing of stats, so it shouldn't be TOO tough to get stats working again. I don't think any historical data is lost... but, don't quote me on that.

I've seen the report that new user registration isn't working. I'll look into that next. I have a fair idea of what that is."

http://www.mariusnet.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/30532

So for anyone interested in rank and a plethora of other features severely lacking from GoS, here's your answer.


And apparently the above was posted months before mariusnet was taken down permanently, as it remains today.

It is amazing to me how someone could be so wrong, so many times, and still remain so willfully and completely unaware of their own stupidity.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_TqyKKakFI[/youtube]

The community can take note of this past power struggle to be better informed so as to not repeat the mistakes of history again unnecessarily, hopefully avoiding another such power struggle when selecting the future successor of the GoS forums. It will likely save us all from being subjected to any further astronomical levels of stupidity.

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Re: GoS vs Mariusnet - A Case Study in Myth Power Struggles

Postby adrenaline » 23 Sep 2016, 12:13

If it takes you less time to fill in these blanks than it did to write that post, I'd be amazed.

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Re: GoS vs Mariusnet - A Case Study in Myth Power Struggles

Postby BIG KROK V8 SS » 23 Sep 2016, 13:41

Why can't marius be put back up?

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Re: GoS vs Mariusnet - A Case Study in Myth Power Struggles

Postby shadow » 23 Sep 2016, 19:22

Actually, mariusnet was nice and well developed.
But dev lost interest years before "crash" and after he close his server/hosting business and move away, site just die. (also om was big fat joke, good thing we dropkick that bastard lol)
Having GOS as backup/ alternative was good. Sure.

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Re: GoS vs Mariusnet - A Case Study in Myth Power Struggles

Postby punkUser » 23 Sep 2016, 21:51

Was a fun little bit of nostalgia - seems silly that we were all so serious at the time in retrospect, but that's pretty much the case for most Myth dramas-of-the-moment I guess :)

One funny bit I saw:
Cutard wrote:You don't get "gate of storms" when you type Myth 2 online in google.

https://www.google.com/search?q=myth+2+online :)
Obviously then vs now, but it's still a nice practical indicator of progress despite zero SEO.

I also think is fairly cool that the majority of planned stuff did get done (and more): viewtopic.php?f=45&t=942
And of course more to come soon, despite the more limited time after "being irresponsible and having kids" (also from that thread) :)

Also I had totally forgotten that damage tracking and damage received were basically busted pre-1.8/GoS heh. How quickly the new stuff all seems like the norm!

Disagreements aside, thanks to everyone for keeping everything alive another few years!

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Re: GoS vs Mariusnet - A Case Study in Myth Power Struggles

Postby adrenaline » 24 Sep 2016, 03:47

How do you kill that which has no life?

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Re: GoS vs Mariusnet - A Case Study in Myth Power Struggles

Postby Boxer » 24 Sep 2016, 05:53

adrenaline wrote:How do you kill that which has no life?

The plumbing outfit isn't the sum of its trucks, drills, or pipe. It's it's employees that give life and value to the company. The server host, the guild of players, the dev people, the haters, the masters and clowns, they give myth life. Really, the only entity that can kill myth is take two. That's not to say that myth can not die. If it lost the dev team or a server host and nobody stepped up, it would probably die. The people in the community who provide these services, for free, are not obligated to myth and thus their lose can never be considered killing it.
I thought having two servers would have been a good thing. The rated g for everyone that Marius wanted and the relaxed skateboard park atmosphere that Punkuser provides.

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Re: GoS vs Mariusnet - A Case Study in Myth Power Struggles

Postby adrenaline » 25 Sep 2016, 05:35

It was a South Park quote, fuckhead.

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Re: GoS vs Mariusnet - A Case Study in Myth Power Struggles

Postby shadow » 25 Sep 2016, 09:06

adrenaline wrote:It was a South Park quote, fuckhead.


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Re: GoS vs Mariusnet - A Case Study in Myth Power Struggles

Postby Boxer » 25 Sep 2016, 14:10

shadow wrote:
adrenaline wrote:It was a South Park quote, fuckhead.


Image


South Park, interesting entertainment.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK3I7c0upHE
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oNk631AthP0

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Re: GoS vs Mariusnet - A Case Study in Myth Power Struggles

Postby Pogue » 25 Sep 2016, 20:19

Giant Killer General wrote:It will likely save us all from being subjected to any further astronomical levels of stupidity.


If that was the case you wouldn't have started this fucking thread. No one is reading all of that lol.

adrenaline wrote:If it takes you less time to fill in these blanks than it did to write that post, I'd be amazed.

Image


That's a tight little anus.

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Re: GoS vs Mariusnet - A Case Study in Myth Power Struggles

Postby sasper » 28 Sep 2016, 16:00

this is way too tl;dr

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Re: GoS vs Mariusnet - A Case Study in Myth Power Struggles

Postby Lizard King » 14 Oct 2016, 00:08

Didn't bother to read the novel of stupidity this started with but the only real reason anyone switched to GoS permanently is because Paris wouldn't allow MWC matches to count or be played on marius, same thing with GKG's retarded "1v1 tournament". (which was more or less him playing as many 1v1s as possible then declaring himself winner). Up until then most were still playing on marius and didn't favor the idea overwhelmingly. They went as far as to not count any and all matches on marius that were played, forcing them to be replayed on GoS as both tournament organizers, par and gkg, favored the automatic compiling of films and stats that GoS offered. W/e, GoS is here and we're thankful, but this is how it actually went down.

Aaaaand that's what really happened, see how easy that was? You look stupid and embarrassing as usual. All up in that tiny head of yours, all the time (:

Case study closed.

-ALL TIME FFA CHAMP OVER AND OUT LOL




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