New home for the forums

Melekor
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New home for the forums

Postby Melekor » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:42 am

punkUser wrote:
Melekor wrote:Has an agreement already been made for who will be hosting the mirror?"


Not sure, why not start a topic to organize it? I'd start by talking to grim, toxyn and par, all of whom have expressed some level of interest in doing community sites recently or in the past. Like I've stated, my personal opinion is that a conventionally managed forum is out of date at this point vs. other options, but hey, people still use Hotline and play Myth on PowerPC Mac's so change may not be embraced by this particular community ;)


So are any of you guys working on setting up a new home for these forums? If no one else can handle it we can probably transfer them onto our host at totalcodex.net. I don't think any moderation is required but we can make the aforementioned people mods if they agree.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby DBSeeker » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:55 am

garnish has been kicking a prototype site on Discord. It's not yet ready for public consumption, though there is already a flame on Myrk there.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Melekor » Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:16 am

Just took a quick look at discord and it's pretty different than forums. It's more centered around chat and voice, and you wouldn't be able to import the existing forum content there. So we'd still need a new home for this forum unless people don't care if all the old threads are lost.

Besides that - discord is also a closed source proprietary app with no support for self hosting. The company itself is a pre-revenue venture backed startup which may or may not be long term sustainable. I'd say the chances of it still existing after the next market crash are pretty much a coin flip.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Giant Killer General » Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:22 am

Seeing as melekor and certain other project magma types have a history of being sensitive and moderating forums against anyone that might insult them (such as permanently banning dac from the pmnet forums), I really don't think it is a good idea to be entrusting them with forum hosting. Someone else more reputable, neutral, thick-skinned, and involved in the community should do it.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Melekor » Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:37 am

Giant Killer General wrote:Seeing as melekor and certain other project magma types have a history of being sensitive and moderating forums against anyone that might insult them (such as permanently banning dac from the pmnet forums), I really don't think it is a good idea to be entrusting them with forum hosting. Someone else more reputable, neutral, thick-skinned, and involved in the community should do it.


dac was given a 1 month suspention after ignoring warnings. he was not permabanned.

I agree it would be preferable to have the competitive community host the replacement itself, but I'm offering the alternative as a last resort if you guys can't get your stuff together ;)
After all I don't think it would be acceptable for all this content to get lost. And as I said, if we were to host the forum, it would not be moderated by us.

EDIT: Also I didn't start this thread just to propose we could host it, it was mostly just to start the discussion.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Giant Killer General » Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:59 am

1 month ban or permaban are both equal disqualifications.

even if not the "moderator" per-say, whoever has the keys to the forum is the super admin and certainly does have moderator powers by default.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby DBSeeker » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:03 am

Melekor - I mean to say that Garnish has forums up. They are in beta form at the moment.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Melekor » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:11 am

Giant Killer General wrote:1 month ban or permaban are both equal disqualifications.

even if not the "moderator" per-say, whoever has the keys to the forum is the super admin and certainly does have moderator powers by default.


You can't make a distinction between different types of forum moderation? The PM forums are a kind of safe space where trolling isn't allowed, while the competitive forums historically have been more of a free for all. It has nothing to do with mods being abusive or thin skinned, it's just different rules.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Giant Killer General » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:38 am

Melekor wrote:It has nothing to do with mods being abusive or thin skinned, it's just different rules.


Said blades, undead, ppe, om, and every other person who abused admin powers ever. just a different set of rules brahs.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby BIG KROK V8 SS » Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:32 pm

I was permabanned from the tain forums.

But seriously if I ran a server and forums I wouldn't ban anyone.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Revan » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:31 pm

BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:I was permabanned from the tain forums.

But seriously if I ran a server and forums I wouldn't ban anyone.


Libertarian POS. I knew you gone soft.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby punkUser » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:56 pm

Might I kindly suggest that if you guys actually want to get anything accomplished you put aside your usual squabbling and trolling for a second and think about how you can contribute? Just a thought...

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Melekor » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:28 pm

It's pretty hilarious that I'm such a controversial figure just for having done some basic moderation on our forums. iirc I've banned all of 2 people in my entire 12+ year tenure as a mod and only given out a few suspensions.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Zak » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:04 pm

I found moderation at the tain to be too biased for my palate

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Revan » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:17 pm

On a serious note, I have webspace I almost never use.. I could hand the keys to convert it to a forum.. but i'd back Mel's idea of simply making the tain the go-to forum.

It would help connect some of those tain exclusive forum people and the ones who roam wild here on GoS.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Melekor » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:02 pm

Revan wrote:but i'd back Mel's idea of simply making the tain the go-to forum.


I actually didn't suggest this. What I said was magma could host this forum on our server, if no one else could be arsed to do it. At the very least I don't want to see the content get lost as has happened with some of the old MWC sites.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Giant Killer General » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:04 pm

Let's see what garnish has and go from there. I don't even know the guy, but that's probably a good sign.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby sharkdrivingabus » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:16 am

I saw a beta version and it is worth giving a chance. He was responsive to feedback which is always a good sign.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby dac » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:01 am

I wouldn't trust melekor to run the new forums, he was too incompetent even with IP information to realize who posted what.

we need somebody who held onto his lunch money in highschool to run the forums (sorry kirk, love you bro) so that the community is less prone to some nerd flexing his power for the first time ever in his life by shitting all over the community.

sorry you're walking away from this PunkUser. you ran this so much better than anybody else that i actually feel dirty comparing you to other community "managers"

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby BIG KROK V8 SS » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:27 am

Everyone on Myth knows that I am the most hateful, volatile, assholeish Myther in the history of the game. At this point in my [Myth] career, I really have no beef with anyone, and hold no grudges towards anyone. I've accomplished way too much. I have no reason to be the old Krok anymore. Of course I will always be me, but when it comes down to more serious matters like the fate of this game and community, I am all for helping out and discussing sensibly the options we have to continue on this game.

I don't understand servers and computers and what it takes to run these forums and the game server and what not. Does it cost money? Do you need to buy equipment? I don't have the time to take over an undertaking like Punkuser and others have, but if I can just be in the loop when it comes to important decisions in this community, then that is where I want to be.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby adrenaline » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:27 am

BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:LOL


fixed.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby BIG KROK V8 SS » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:30 am

adrenaline wrote:I confess my love for THEE



Oh how cute. But I already knew of this mancrush adren.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby toxyn » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:33 pm

I wouldn't mind hosting the forums, punkUser. I have room on both a shared web server and my DigitalOcean account. Domain names are cheap, no biggie there.

As far as moderating it goes, I think maybe a couple of people to help make sure everything is running smoothly would be fine. I mean tasks such as looking out for spam, helping people with any technical issues, supporting user requests (e.g. people requesting a forum ranking system or a tourney needs a new forum) -- stuff like that.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby BIG KROK V8 SS » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:48 am

LOL WTF TOX HOST FORUMS

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby punkUser » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:36 pm

toxyn wrote:I wouldn't mind hosting the forums, punkUser. I have room on both a shared web server and my DigitalOcean account. Domain names are cheap, no biggie there.

That would be great if the community is fine with that toxyn. I can extract the relevant parts of the database (the ones that weren't modified to integrate with the metaserver and such) if you plan to run phpbb again, or even if you don't. And of course I can easily make the link at the top go to whatever site folks deem appropriate.

Just as a community try and come up with the preferred option and we can sort out the technical stuff from there.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby CheezeFist » Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:32 pm

The Return of the Gjol?

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Pogue » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:36 am

toxyn wrote:I wouldn't mind hosting the forums, punkUser. I have room on both a shared web server and my DigitalOcean account. Domain names are cheap, no biggie there.

As far as moderating it goes, I think maybe a couple of people to help make sure everything is running smoothly would be fine. I mean tasks such as looking out for spam, helping people with any technical issues, supporting user requests (e.g. people requesting a forum ranking system or a tourney needs a new forum) -- stuff like that.


Only chance of this actually being good.

BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:BIG FAT BEN IS A RAPIST


Fixed.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby BIG KROK V8 SS » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:05 pm

Pogue wrote:
toxyn wrote:I wouldn't mind hosting the forums, punkUser. I have room on both a shared web server and my DigitalOcean account. Domain names are cheap, no biggie there.

As far as moderating it goes, I think maybe a couple of people to help make sure everything is running smoothly would be fine. I mean tasks such as looking out for spam, helping people with any technical issues, supporting user requests (e.g. people requesting a forum ranking system or a tourney needs a new forum) -- stuff like that.


Only chance of this actually being good.

BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:BIG FAT BEN IS A RAPIST


Fixed.


LOL GL WITH JIMMY. JIMMY GARLPOLPOLLOLOLOLO

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby par73 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:07 pm

jimmy probably gonna end his career with more rings than big ben just by playing 2nd string for the pats for the next 2 years

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby par73 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:16 pm

bringing the topic back to the table, here's my thoughts:

my goal over 2016 has been to revitalize the community with some fresh and old faces. one of the best ways for active players over the past 3-4 years to connect has been the gate of storms forums, which we were all fortunate to use because it made registration to the server that much easier.

with that said and the time of these forums likely drawing towards it's end, we have had plenty of time to explore and find new ways to connect. I think finding one generalized location has it's pros and cons, but another way to look at this situation is we all have more than one option.
with that notion, no one is really forced into a situation they won't like.

Here's some info on relevant hubs to bunker down on:

Projectmagma.net/tain.totalcodex.net
These forums are the best way to connect to the players who update the game code, as well as those who continue to work on 3rd party productions of Myth.

Projectmagma et al, support these forums.
Really there is no room for shit talk here. They are the oldest, 'active' myth forums around. If you don't respect fellow gamers, you probably shouldn't bother with these forums at all.


Reddit
So I've heard there is a Myth reddit out there, I'm doubting its active if it's even there. this could be a great place to build a new forum, as Reddit is used by millions of people every day. Blast's "Hey do you remember Myth II?" post was quite a hit and got a healthy serving of upvotes. Any of those upvoters could find their way to a Myth Reddit at some point or another.

Other Alternatives -
I think there might be one or two other great alternatives out there no one has mentioned yet. I fully support Toxyn with his ideas here.

Discord and "Myth Chat"
I stumbled upon discord when looking for alternatives to team forums earlier in the year thanks to the Deadholdians. Discord has it all, you can create separate public discussions, assign permissions to users, use VOIP, upload images and files under 25 megs, engage in private discussion. You can also use discord through a browser, a mobile device as well as desktop application. Discord is more of an immediate discussion zone rather than a forum where posts are compiled over a long period of time, although discord does save all discussions not deleted.

This program is extremely versatile in what it can do and is constantly being updated with appropriate features. This should become a staple for any person looking to play Myth online in 2016.

Currently, Seeker and Cu support the largest gathering of Myth Players on discord on their server "Myth Chat", (which makes it much easier to get a game with wonderful people going). There is a line to cross here, as the admins do not take kindly to racist or homophobic talk.


I think there are plenty of options out there for different players with different interests.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Zak » Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:12 pm


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Re: New home for the forums

Postby wonka » Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:37 pm

And...

I am working on an alternative. "Working on" being the operative phrase.

http://www.myrgard.com/

Any comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby shadow » Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:46 pm

wonka wrote:And...

I am working on an alternative. "Working on" being the operative phrase.

http://www.myrgard.com/

Any comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.


Yeah, who da fuck is this willy wonka dude ? stay away

Toxyn all the way

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby wonka » Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:14 am

Thanks

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Zak » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:37 am

No offense to Tox, but I'd rather we go to AN EXISTING myth forum hub (myrgard.com), rather than hope he makes a new one. I know he has made websites in the past, but he has also failed to deliver multiple times, and been extremely late on other websites. I mean theres a reason we didn't have a MWC website until DE3 this year.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby BIG KROK V8 SS » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:33 pm

Is Marius capable of being reinstated, including all of its existing content, etc.? Like if someone just took over that server or something.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Pogue » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:17 am

BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:
Pogue wrote:
toxyn wrote:I wouldn't mind hosting the forums, punkUser. I have room on both a shared web server and my DigitalOcean account. Domain names are cheap, no biggie there.

As far as moderating it goes, I think maybe a couple of people to help make sure everything is running smoothly would be fine. I mean tasks such as looking out for spam, helping people with any technical issues, supporting user requests (e.g. people requesting a forum ranking system or a tourney needs a new forum) -- stuff like that.


Only chance of this actually being good.

BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:BIG FAT BEN IS A RAPIST


Fixed.


LOL GL WITH JIMMY. JIMMY GARLPOLPOLLOLOLOLO


Weak brah, weak.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby BIG KROK V8 SS » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:31 am

you fags would win on a botched snap for a kick. that's the only way they can win-- cheating and luck.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Pogue » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:06 pm

BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:you fags would win on a botched snap for a kick. that's the only way they can win-- cheating and luck.


Lol so butthurt. Get used to it bitch, it's only week one.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby wonka » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:17 pm

I have switched myrgard to phpbb, so if there is any data transfer, it will be fairly painless. Obviously I need to work on the look a little. Aiming for TFL journal pages but highly legible.

Any comments and or requests would be great.

Http://myrgard.com

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby toxyn » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:59 pm

punkUser wrote:
toxyn wrote:I wouldn't mind hosting the forums, punkUser. I have room on both a shared web server and my DigitalOcean account. Domain names are cheap, no biggie there.

That would be great if the community is fine with that toxyn. I can extract the relevant parts of the database (the ones that weren't modified to integrate with the metaserver and such) if you plan to run phpbb again, or even if you don't. And of course I can easily make the link at the top go to whatever site folks deem appropriate.

Just as a community try and come up with the preferred option and we can sort out the technical stuff from there.


Sounds good. I would most definitely go with phpBB to make data transfer and setup more painless.

So, where do we go from here: Community vote? Just move forward with setting up new forums/sites and let people go to whichever site they prefer (or all)?

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby toxyn » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:07 am

wonka wrote:I have switched myrgard to phpbb, so if there is any data transfer, it will be fairly painless. Obviously I need to work on the look a little. Aiming for TFL journal pages but highly legible.

Any comments and or requests would be great.

Http://myrgard.com


Hey, you're off to a good start! Look forward to seeing the finished theme. Are there plans for anything more outside of forums?

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby punkUser » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:26 pm

toxyn wrote:So, where do we go from here: Community vote? Just move forward with setting up new forums/sites and let people go to whichever site they prefer (or all)?

Maybe have a chat with wonka and some other folks and see if a consensus can be reached. If not, we may need some sort of vote from active and semi-active folks.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby wonka » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:14 am

I am making some headway. Trying to make it Dwarven. Feedback appreciated.

Toxyn, forums is the thing that Punkuser said is being phased out of the Gate of Storms. I know you have been working on a platform for tournament hosting. Am I missing any bigger part of the picture? The community seems to be very well represented between GOS, Tain, Magma, Discord and all of archived wiki type sites for lore.

I like the idea of keeping the GOS forums up as archives and whatever forum is the next one is like a new book, or a new beginning. Obviously migrating user accounts over would help a transition, but I don't know if it's entirely necessary.

http://www.myrgard.com/

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby wonka » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:50 pm

Working out a tie in with mythgen would be great. Not clear on exact implementation beyond a few well placed links back and forth.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby punkUser » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:14 am

Ok let's keep the discussion going here... toxyn could you comment on what you're working on and whether or not you might want to work with wonka on it? If you guys agree to work together on something I imagine it would be pretty much a given that that's where the community should move which would make things easier.

Either way I'd like to see the community come to a consensus here so we can work out the technical bits.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby toxyn » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:43 pm

I'm working on a Myth tournament hosting web app, not a site. Once it's done, I was going to put it on my GitHub so other people in the community can use it and contribute changes. The timetable for completion is a few months from now -- I'm aiming for the end of the year.

As far a community site (or sites), I offered Par help with setting up sites for his MythGen.com domain. IIRC, we briefly discussed a blog for the root domain and maybe a subdomain for forums. With this GOS forum stuff coming up, the Myrgard site, and the declining size of the community- perhaps it would be better to either merge or at least not have multiple forums? The main problem is if Par or anyone else hosts a tournament website on MythGen (or another domain), what do we do about forums if they only exist on Mygard? Just force everyone to sign up for new accounts on MythGen and make them bounce between forums/accounts on one site and a tourney app on another? Make new forums on the tourney site and drag most of the attention away from the main community forums on Myrgard? Unless Myth goes open source/becomes freely available at some point, the community will continue to mostly consist of the same people. I don't think punkUser has time to create something like an oAuth2 system for GOS users either (that way we could allow people to sign in with those credentials).

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby Giant Killer General » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:16 pm

The solution here seems fairly obvious to me. Toxyn, you should be working with Garnish (wonka), not paris. Paris wants you to hand him the key to all the work you are doing for him just because he talked to you about it and bought a domain for 10 bucks? I fail to see what real value he is providing to this situation. Not to mention the major issues he has had in the past with his sense of judgment when put in charge of anything. I would have major concerns about paris holding the keys to anything, as would a significant portion of the community, I'm sure.

Just untangle all the possible problems with this situation by working only with Garnish (wonka) directly, who has clearly already put in some real work, is more technical like you making it easier to work (whereas paris is not), and is not a controversial figure. He has forums for now, maybe a site later, you can integrate your app to that, and there is no more issues of further complicating the sites that continue to support the community.

The only other option is that you do it for both garnish's and paris' site, but I see no reason for this redundancy, which could also set the stage for / result in a splintering conflict between the community over trusting / preferring one site over the other (much as what happened when GoS came out as an alternative to marius.net, and people like Cu, Kilgrath, and others came out of the woodwork to vehemently trash / attack punk's efforts with GoS and push for it to be shutdown - we can all see the result of how wrong they were in hindsight now). And then there is still the outstanding issues of trusting paris with the key to anything. If paris wants to do a myth blog still, then he can either do that on his domain without your app, or he can request a separate section on garnish's site for him to use for that purpose.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby punkUser » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:09 pm

toxyn wrote:I don't think punkUser has time to create something like an oAuth2 system for GOS users either (that way we could allow people to sign in with those credentials).

Actually, as per the other sticky/announcement, the new setup for logging in at GoS will effectively be OAUTH2 (with Steam as the provider). There's no point in making GoS itself a provider. After that point people won't have "GoS credentials", they'll just have their steam account or whatever.

Thus another site could similarly link to Steam accounts for authorization and you'd have the account link. These days I just don't see the value in having separate accounts stored at little sites like the myth community and all the hassle that entails. It's better to just use all the technology the bigger guys have put into this stuff and let them do the authentication and security bits.

That said if people want to have specific accounts at a new site that's fine too. Like I said I'm happy to go with whatever the community wants in terms of passing of the database dump and linking from GoS, I just personally am going to decouple any GoS specific account/credential management going forward.

Anyways if toxyn is fine with working with wonka, I'll pass the two of them the current database dump so that they can get whatever bits of it integrated that they see fit. Then at a set point in time we can just lock the forums here and move over there. I have mostly enough infrastructure to switch the accounts over to the Steam linked stuff at this point and will finish that up soon. The forums will remain up here and locked until it doesn't make sense anymore as I still have a bit more work to do to move the rest of the site over to the metaserver VM anyways.

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Re: New home for the forums

Postby East Wind tmnt » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:34 am

Thank you garnish + toxyn for working on this btw!


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