GKG vs Kirk Retirement Match 2010

[adrenaline]

Literally just posted 15 screenshots above in a post. You have to click on the link to view the album.

LOL I just looked at these... a few select screenshots from the probably 200 1v1s we've played historically.. jesus christ... if i was as religious about saving films as you are, I could post dozens of screenshots ending with "BIG KROK V8 SS has left the game"... including the time I retired you. Your profile quote should be "Can't lose a game if you drop."

[Giant Killer General]

It is very true. Canada definitely has better internet than America. I don't know if non-Americans fully understand how utterly pathetic our internet infrastructure is here relative to the rest of the world. We are behind many poor European countries, and even some poor non-European countries. Canada beats America in many societal metrics such as these, so it is no surprise to me. But even your DSL in 2002 is pretty decent.

The popularity of dial-up in the U.S. is pretty readily seen by the popularity of AOL during this time, as it was by far the most dominant ISP at the time. The height of AOL's popularity was in 2000. It declined from there, but it still remained very popular for several years after that, until maybe around 2006.

[Dantski]

Meh I wouldn't take my TA's in 2006 too seriously (nor Tiger's TBH, he was never that good and since he was American probably didn't play as much with the Europeans), I probably played a hell of a lot more games with Chohan than Tirri back then simply because he was extremely active and played at the same times I did. However I was also a mediocre-decent player in 2006 who led mostly unranked coop players in MWC teams. Sure I played with most of the best players in random or stacked 2 team games (besides Myrk who never played at Euro friendly times outside of tournaments) but my understanding of myth wasn't really sufficient to judge the 2 best players. The main points I had to go on back then as to which of them was better was the fact that Chohan was stomping everyone in 1v1's (I wasn't aware of him losing to Shai in some tournament until someone pointed it out years later) and I had some close fights with tirri in some random gimble/gyre games (or FFA tourneys, honestly memories of 12 years ago are vague and unreliable!)

Man it would be nice if we could host a 1v1 tournament just for you guys and you all showed up. The AdrenGKGKirkTirriathon, pity that some people would rather talk about being great 1v1 players than playing directly with no excuses.

[Giant Killer General]

Good input, Dant. Grim also backed up your assessment though, and he also pointed out that Chohan won the two 1v1 tournaments over the last 3 years. So I think that is a fairly good indicator of who was considered the best at the time.

Yea, I have never heard of Chohan losing to Shai in any tourney either until you just mentioned it. I am pretty sure he demolished Shai in 2006 in his 1v1 tournament. And didn't lose the 2 tournaments in the 3 years prior, according to grim's TA at the time. So that must have been pretty early on...and I don't think Shai switched from TFL until later too...so not sure what or when such a tournament could possibly be. In fact, I am not even aware of any 1v1 tourney Shai won in myth 2 at least....he only ever choked in the 2-3 tourneys I saw him compete in later. Choked against Chohan in 2006 too.

I agree, at a certain point we should all just shut up and play, which was a point I also raised earlier. I think Adren and I would man up to play today, but we all know how things go with Tirri and Kirk. Besides, nothing can really count unless we all have perfect activity and care anyway (at least, according to Tirri), hence the discussions of old. It's all good though, these forums were dead anyway and this is how we learn about and carry on Myth history as well. You were no slouch of a 1v1er either.

[tirri]

Man it would be nice if we could host a 1v1 tournament just for you guys and you all showed up. The AdrenGKGKirkTirriathon, pity that some people would rather talk about being great 1v1 players than playing directly with no excuses.

I'm not talking about being a great 1v1er am I? I said that when I played a lot of 1v1s, I was dominant and certainly didn't try to dodge anyone. I also said that later on if I did happen to get interested in an 1v1 tourney, I did fine in my opinion which is hardly proclaiming greatness. I don't remember claiming I'd win or be a favorite in any of those.
I stopped playing 1v1s actively after 2003 and will stumble a lot in them. For what evidence I've gathered lately, I think I'm about at Slates level in 1v1s in the past few years and don't remember claiming to be anything else.

Saying to me "just shut up and play" is like saying it to you, why don't you do it? Are you scared and dodging the best 1v1ers? The only reason I'm always brought up in these discussions is because I used to be considered the best 1v1er.

Furthermore, this wide perception of Chohan being better than you is easily explained by what Grim states in his TA that Chohan has won both of the 1v1 tournaments in the last 3 years (so roughly from 2003-2006). But this was during your PRIME activity years. Where were you in these, and what happened?

While we are at it and Dantski is here to give anecdotal evidence, I'll just tackle this preposterous claim of gkg. Gkg says 2003-2006 is during my PRIME activity years which could not be further from the truth. GKGs posts are so long and full of these things it's too cumbersome to disprove them all but here goes for this. In 2003 I went to the army and was not active at all. In 2004 I started studying at the university and was unbelievably inactive, half the time being away from my computer and if I did happen to play, it was always drunk. The same trend continued till 2005 which was a complete low point for myth and for myself in activity. 2006 was the only summer during my university years when I happened to study (instead of work) during the summer and had some free time which is when I had a few months of activity during the mwc season. So really the 2003-2006 gkg claims prime years for me were anything but and pretty much consisted of a few months of activity.

I'm euro too so I wonder why Dantski doesn't remember playing against me much like he did with chohan, seeing the years before 2006 mwc were my PRIME activity. For the record in 2006 I think I didn't remember playing against dantski at all and didn't really know who he is

I probably played a hell of a lot more games with Chohan than Tirri back then simply because he was extremely active and played at the same times I did.

[Giant Killer General]

You said "after the army in 2004." It sounded like you went in the military in 2004, therefore, I assumed 2003 and 2006 were both active years for you (even if not the whole thing in between). But okay, I can see how that can read differently. So you went in the military in 2003. Very well, I will revise my statement to 2006 only. You were still fully active in the mwc season in 2006 and during Chohan's 1v1 tournament. And despite many other prominent 1v1er's participating, you chose not to. So sorry, the rest of my statement still stands, try as you might to wiggle out of it.

All I did was try to give my respect to Chohan because I have seen every other top 1v1 player be scared of other top 1v1 players at various times, including you, Tirri. You are acting humble all of a sudden, but apparently were not humble enough just a little while ago to not challenge that statement. So all I am doing at this point is giving my reasoning. And the bottom-line for me is this: you participated in two mwc's while prominent 1v1 tournaments were going on in each year, both of which Chohan won. And you did not even participate. Not to mention my own personal experiences with you in 1v1 tournaments. Not to mention all this talk of how much emphasis you put on activity and other excuses, which only goes to further prove my point. You were either available and interested enough to sign up to play in the tournaments in the first place, or you were not. The rest of your argument about various reasonings for why you chose to participate in mwc in 06 and 07 but not the two major and historically significant 1v1 tournaments going on at the same time in each year, or why you would quit 1v1 tournaments in the middle of them in later years, is all just a matter of semantics. You say preset problems in 2006, then activity/care in 2007 (and everything after). I say scared. Same thing.

It's also interesting to see how humble you have gotten all of a sudden after claiming two unknown wins over Chohan while ignoring any other possible losses to him or avoidance of him later on. I wonder when those 2 random wins you are claiming were too. How could you so steadfastly challenge and play him (as you describe) if you were too inactive in 03-05 to even play myth, and also not able to play him in either 06 or 07 for the 1v1 tournaments? And wouldn't a match win such as that between the 2 of the most prominent 1v1ers at the time (and perhaps one of the very few matches ever against each other) be mentioned by someone at any point in the years afterward? Nobody else remembers it, or even remembers anyone talking about it ever? And you knew you could beat him from those matches, but decided to never try to do it publicly or in a tournament? None of it really makes a whole lot of sense. But I guess at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what really happened with that, given your non-participation in 2006.

Might your totally non-characteristic and completely sudden humility right now have anything to do with the fact of conveniently trying to downplay tournament losses in the years since then? Nawww...couldn't be that. Because I know you were so humble dueling your ass off to practice just prior to our 1v1 finals match in the 2009 Sunset tournament, and when you were so quick to assume that tournament victory to your friends near the end of the sudden-death game you were winning slightly, right before then losing that game and the next 2 games after. I know if you had won those 1v1 tournaments instead of me, you would never say a word about it! Never the tirri I know! He is too humble for that! He has never talked about his other tournament victories in the past either!

[tirri]

You were still fully active in the mwc season in 2006 and during Chohan's 1v1 tournament. And despite many other prominent 1v1er's participating, you chose not to. So sorry, the rest of my statement still stands, try as you might to wiggle out of it.

In my first post I literally said that after 2003 I cut down playing myth and stopped playing 1v1s almost completely. Your posts only talk about time after that, questioning why I did or didn't do stuff. What you are implying is that if I want to play in a team tourney with my best myth friends, it means I'm really active and automatically scared if I wasn't playing in other tournaments.
Hell there must be several other instances where I have played myth in some form or another but not in some on-going tourney. Does that always mean I'm too scared or can it sometimes mean that I just don't want to play? Do you pick and choose whatever narrative fits best for you?

For the record I still think I'm the best ffa player even right now and I've been somewhat active during some of milkmans ffa leagues. Do you think I've been too scared to play in those or does my inactivity somehow grant me a pass this time?

It's also interesting to see how humble you have gotten all of a sudden after claiming two unknown wins over Chohan while ignoring any other possible losses to him or avoidance of him later on. Wouldn't a match win such as that between the 2 of the most prominent 1v1ers at the time be mentioned by someone at any point in the years afterward? Nobody else remembers it, or even remembers anyone talking about it ever?

Again questioning my trust-worthiness while you're the only one spewing uncredited hyporbole in every post. My matches against chohan have been talked about endlessly on tournament forums, the films have been posted and there were plenty of viewers in the matches. I have no idea if there are any active players from 2003 lurking these forums who can back up my claims. I spefically remember grim being impressed about chohan and telling me I should 1v1 him and I'm pretty sure he was present in the match (the first one). I don't remember who else was.
Again you seem to think you're arguing with someone like Kirk. It's not my job to try and prove everything to you beyond a doubt when I've never lied about these things while your posts are filled with unchecked facts and hyperbole.

It's also very well known that I have lost matches against Chohan and I have not said I'm a better 1v1er than him. That's not what I've been arguing now is it

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

There is only one thing we can know for sure is absolutely not true in what you just stated, which is this:

I leeched to 2 early MWC victories.

Nobody claims to win 2 early mwcs victories without giving the specific years they won and other details, unless you are just straight up trying to lie about it. The championship teams of the early mwcs, and their entire rosters of players are very well known. You definitely were not in there. And furthermore, you were way too young for this to even be plausible. I was among the youngest people to be playing back in 1998-2001, and you are younger than me. Pretty much everyone that was playing back then was older than me. So I am fairly certain you never even started playing Myth until after the Bungie.net era.

And since you are trying to lie about this, we can safely assume the rest is most likely lies too, just as always.

Just because you don't know the truth doesn't make it a lie. I explained to you that I was not even an integral player on those teams. My real life friend was. He allowed me to use a teammate's account to participate in some games during the victories. He made sure I played at least 1 game in the finals. There are reasons I cannot be more specific about the teams (I'm sure you can figure out what team it was), but more specifically who the player was that got me into Myth to begin with.

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

I had never heard a thing about adrenaline until 2007. I came back and this guy has an ego and talks shit all the time. I literally thought he was some dummy account or an overzealous newb because I'd never seen him a second before that year. Shaister vouches he'd been around since the TFL days, and I believe Shai because he's always been a straight shooter with me.

Don't forget I put NC on the map with their first ever team tournament victory.

Ah that totally explains why we formed a 2-man (+6 account) clan (RoT) together in 2007... we must not have known each other. "Came back" LOL... the only things you came back from at that time was mediocrity and anonymity. You were just another Raid player until you adopted this brash personality and actually started getting good at reg myth. And I'm not arguing that I had a "name" at that point, either.. I was just an old-school "very good" TFLer and clung to it til the bitter end... I played m2 very occasionally (a lot of ww2, honestly lol) until first incarnation of Mariusnet died and got back into Myth 2 in 2002ish... mostly because my piece of shit computer at the time wouldn't run it properly before then. Moral of the story is... I was likely very good at Myth long before you even started playing.

Yeah good job playing TFL that died out and nobody ever played again once M2 came out because it was superior in every way. Again you are disillusioned and misinformed about my history.

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

Guys, I think we are missing one of the most important topics there is. The fact that Myrk has never 1v1ed me despite talking shit for years and years and years because he is a fat pathetic loser and never reached more than 3 ball status.

Adren, each post you type, you further ink yourself as a pot smoking idiot who hit his head too many times playing snowboards. Nothing you have said can ever be considered a rational thought. Everyone who has read your posts is now dumber for having witnessed what you have said. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

Since GKG likes to look up previous MWC sites, let's see if he can track down my threat assessments from MWC 2003. Every player, including grim, gave me 5 ball assessment.

[Giant Killer General]

All you need to do next time is include the below statement with your initial post when you are trying to claim 2 victories over Chohan without any further context:

It's also very well known that I have lost matches against Chohan and I have not said I'm a better 1v1er than him

This also helps:

My matches against chohan have been talked about endlessly on tournament forums, the films have been posted and there were plenty of viewers in the matches. I have no idea if there are any active players from 2003 lurking these forums who can back up my claims. I spefically remember grim being impressed about chohan and telling me I should 1v1 him and I'm pretty sure he was present in the match. I don't remember who else was.

You're technically right that you never explicitly said you were better than Chohan. You just strongly implied it in your first post with this:

When Chohan started 1v1ing people and make a name for himself, I literally sought him out, challenged him and beat him soundly and did it again after Chohan wanted another chance.

Chohan goes from being the weak kid that couldn't beat you in your first post, to the guy you had tough matches against and that you eventually conceded was better than you in your most recent post. Makes a huge difference.

If you included all of that right away, then I wouldn't have much of a problem with anything that you said. That is how you be honest and actually humble about things by framing them with the correct context. But it's pretty obvious how hard you were trying to get away without stating it seeing as how long it took me to get that out of you.

Okay, so you beat him twice and lost to him more than twice around 2003 at the end of your activity and as he was just starting his reign. That makes sense, and I fully accept that. For the record, I have never thought you are a liar so much as just someone who withholds certain details when it is convenient for you (like the above details). If I believed you to be liar like Kirk, then I would not have even bothered asking you questions in the first place since you could easily just lie to answer them however you please. You don't see me asking Kirk questions, do you?

So now that we got the full context of all that finally, I think this still only supports my argument that you acknowledged he was better than you in 2003, and that is at least part of the reason why you did not want to challenge him again in later years when you had the full opportunity to do so. It is also possibly part of why you got discouraged from 1v1s in the first place and/or took a break from myth. God knows, I am sure if you had beaten him, you would have kept 1v1ing or returned to it much sooner. In a way, I think he sort of marked the end of your reign.

I am not asking for any proof of this, there is none to be had (except maybe grim as a character witness). Of course, you would deny such a thing. But regardless, this is what I believe to be true about you. Sorry if it hurts your feelings. I wasn't even fully trying to talk shit when I said it (okay, maybe half-shit talk). It is simply something that I believe, not just about you, but of many top competitive gamers in general. I was simply making an observation about the human nature of most people.

I get now that maybe you wanted to make a point of saying you were not scared of Chohan at one point in time, in the beginning when you first met him, because you did actually boldly challenge him. Great, I grant you that. But that doesn't disprove the rest of what I said after you lost to him. Both can be true.

[Giant Killer General]

It looks like you have just given up even trying to fool anyone about anything anymore, Kirk. Just obvious lies everywhere.

There are reasons I cannot be more specific about the teams...

Yes, we all already know what those reason are. Because none of it actually happened, lol.

[tirri]

I get now that maybe you wanted to make a point of saying you were not scared of Chohan at one point in time, in the beginning when you first met him, because you did actually boldly challenge him. Great, I grant you that. But that doesn't disprove the rest of what I said after you lost to him. Both can be true.

My point is I've been trying to pinpoint where the scared narrative comes from, except your own long made up stories.
For the whole time I was actively playing 1v1s, I joined dueling ladders, 1v1 tourneys and played all challenges I could find. I didn't stop after losing matches (for example against scorpio in the first dueling ladder) or some 1v1 tourney which name eludes me or when I lost to Chohan. You claim I got scared after 2003, ie incidentally right after I came back from the army, moved to a different city and started studying at the university, while almost every other NP also dramatically lessened their play time. The time when I mostly stopped mything (due to other interests) and completely stopped 1v1ing (because preset problem affected duels more than team games).

Were all NPs scared too? Many of them used to join 1v1 tourneys but didn't after becoming less active. Rabican stayed somewhat active for a long time but never really took up serious captaining again, was he scared? Or do you give them the benefit of the doubt of really not being interested?

I'm just trying to figure out when I'm supposedly scared and when I can say I just don't play myth and/or duels enough to play. I'm curious, now that I've played myth a little this year and might even play in the mwc. If you happen to host a 1v1 tourney and I don't join, do you think I'm scared or do you think I really just don't want to play myth or duels at all?

Now of course all this would be completely different if at any point during 2004-2018 I claimed to be the best 1v1er. Have I done something like that? Then I could somehow see a point to the scared and dodging challenges narrative.

[Giant Killer General]

You lost matches before, but you never saw a player actually be better than you before until you met Chohan, which was my point. I am pretty sure some NP did play Chohan in his 1v1 tournament in 2006. And I know Rabican at least, as well as probably some other NP as well again, played in the 2007 1v1 tournament Chohan was in as well. And you stuck with the game longer than Rabican and the rest of them did (other than Gekko). And you were their best dueler. So no, they weren't scared because they did play.

You go from "loving" duels for just a few years in 2000-2003, conveniently while you were mostly beating everyone for a couple of years (and before other top 1v1ers even came onto the scene), to NEVER caring about them ever again while you continue to stay with the game for another 15 years? Oh, and you conveniently stopped joining 1v1 tournaments until soon after, lo and behold, Chohan is finally no longer around. Then you play in at least 2 1v1 tournaments for a couple years around 09-10 all the way through, but then stop playing in them again after losing to me twice in two consecutive tournaments, starting with a 3rd tournament (I believe Aki's Spider 1v1 tournament around 2011) that you played all the way through before quitting when getting to the match against me.

Seeing the pattern yet?

I'm sorry, everything you say can be true about other life stuff making you busy or whatever, but it doesn't disprove anything I say. You can never convince me that your losses to top 1v1ers (namely, Chohan and myself), and the resulting blow to your confidence from those losses, has never had even the smallest impact on your desire to play 1v1s. It is simply HUMAN NATURE, especially for egos such as yours that were accustomed to being on top before. 1v1ers are especially susceptible to this because there is no one else to blame but themselves. Kirk is another example of this, only winning in 2008 against the likes of Raziel and Rabican and never competing ever again. This has always been my point.

So the way I see it, all your other excuses are just defense mechanisms to preserve your own ego (and your self-perceived legacy). And I know this because I have seen the flashes of your ego over the years which revealed the actual level of your care for these things. It never required you to claim to be the best 1v1er, that is irrelevant. This has apparently struck a chord with you. You simply lack the introspection to see it and/or the humility to admit it.

I will also add that I know this from beyond any mythers or Myth. I have seen this happen with multiple other top players in other video games as well. If a top player experiences a widely recognized reign at the top, but can no longer live up to the increasing pressure and expectations (from both themselves and others), they often fall off the map in some way, and will be quick to mention at every opportunity a bunch of reasons for why they fell off the map, reasons which conveniently almost never include the fact that they didn't believe they could maintain their winning streak, or create a new winning streak in the future. It must never happen to anyone, ever!

It even goes beyond video games. You might also see aspects of this in sports too, particularly anything 1v1 based. Imagine being known as the best fighter at a particular gym, or in a local area, and then having someone new join and beat you in front of your peers consistently over a period of time. This is the psychological effect that I speak of. It is far less prevalent in anything truly professional because there is a strong financial incentive to continue, and it is far less prevalent in anyone who was near the top but never THE very top because they are still accustomed to and expected to lose every now and then. But when you are clearly the only one at THE top of a game from a significant winning streak, it provides a unique position and feeling from the game due to the respect it garners from other people around you - even for non-professional competitions. And if that feeling goes away from no longer being at the top, it always has a massive impact on that player's feelings about the game.

It is almost kind of like being a boss at a company, and then getting demoted. People almost always leave the company if this ever happens them. It is too embarrassing or hard of an emotional and social transition. The ego can't handle it. It takes either a very strong mind (which we can rarely find examples of) or some other very strong incentive, to overcome something like this. Plus when this happens in games, there becomes an incentive for the ego to protect legacy as well, by denying others more opportunity to beat them or to delegitimize other's later wins over them as much as possible. This is what I mean by my observation of human nature. And it is completely pointless to attempt to deny such an obvious reality of life.

For the record, I don't think Chohan and I are somehow immune to this psychological effect either. God knows, we both had huge egos that we probably could not take such a devastating blow to our egos either, just the same as anyone else. But I just think we both happen to put ourselves out there many times for a murderer's row of challengers over a long period of time, and neither of us were ever truly beaten by anyone during our respective reigns (beaten not in the sense of never losing a game or a match, but in the sense of losing consistently muiltiple times to any other specific player). Neither of us tasted the fear of facing a player clearly better than us after already having the pressure and expectations of being on top, which is something that every other top player experienced at some point. And neither of us avoided any 1v1 tournaments for any reason (call it what you will). On the contrary, we both hosted 1v1 tournaments during our reigns. And that is why I feel some kinship with him and respect for him in the history of Myth. That is all I am trying to say.

[adrenaline]

Since GKG likes to look up previous MWC sites, let's see if he can track down my threat assessments from MWC 2003. Every player, including grim, gave me 5 ball assessment.

Yet another blatant lie by Kirk, thinking the 03 site is completely gone and no one can disprove his preposterous claim. I've definitely visited all the old MWC sites before they disappeared, and many others likely have as well... and I guarantee nobody remembers this alleged unanimous 5-ball rating. Well, at least there is still this:

"one of the team's better players" - on a team comprised of Raid/GFGG players and ZAGON LOL, High acclaim, to be sure...

We're still eager to hear more about your previous 2 MWC victories. Name the teams... what was your alias..?

It certainly wasn't with Np in 2001, and 2002 didn't happen... I suppose you are going to try to convince us it was with Civil/SF in 99/00? Or was it Rabble Forces in 98?! LOL

One lie after another, in typical Kirk fashion.

[Giant Killer General]

LOL, adren. That is actually a really good find, haha. Perfectly proves it right there. What tournament is that from?

[adrenaline]

mwc03, back when certified 5-ballers were teaming with ZAGON LOL

[adrenaline]

Ghetto cakes was my 2004 MWC team and we were stacked well too, but got banned before games started.

Well shit... since I got the ball rolling, may as well further crush your credibility... not that you ever had much.

[Giant Killer General]

Just lol...

Kirk forgot to pick a year that it would be tougher to dig up the mwc site for to easily confirm he is lying. I am sure his story will conveniently change soon, though.

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

Yeah if you fuckers had any reading comprehension, I was banned for both of those MWCs. Enigman replaced me early when I was banned before the tournament started, therefore I never showed up. As far as the the 5L team, if you only knew who we had on that team, you would be pissing yourself. If you clicked on my name you would have seen the actual ratings. But obviously you found an old screen that didn't even have threat assessments on it like I had said.

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

Just lol...

Kirk forgot to pick a year that it would be tougher to dig up the mwc site for to easily confirm he is lying. I am sure his story will conveniently change soon, though.

Nothing in my story changes because that is exactly what happened. Ask anyone on that Ghetto Cakes list if I was on the team initially, then replaced when I got banned. Only person who would obviously deny it is myrk because he has a 2" erection for me.

Me being listed on the 5L team in 2003 proves BOTH gkg and adren are liars in saying that I didn't start playing Myth until 2007 like BOTH of you have said in this thread. Clearly in 2003 I was a heavy hitter already, but since you refuse to actually click the link under my name and find some random bogus page instead, that's cool too. Accurate that I was one of the team's better players, and also accurate a lot of people hated me. What's this again about not being good and not having an ego until 2007, gkg?

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

Adrenaline if you can post a single film of you beating me IN A SINGLE 1V1 EVER SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME. I will concede to you and give you back your 5 ball rating.

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

Well clearly nobody thinks gkg is.

3 votes for me. Only voted for myself once.
0 for little penis recruit.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3945

[tirri]

And I know Rabican at least, as well as probably some other NP as well again, played in the 2007 1v1 tournament Chohan was in as well. And you stuck with the game longer than Rabican and the rest of them did (other than Gekko). And you were their best dueler. So no, they weren't scared because they did play.

Oh, and you conveniently stopped joining 1v1 tournaments until soon after, lo and behold, Chohan is finally no longer around. Then you play in at least 2 1v1 tournaments for a couple years around 09-10 all the way through, but then stop playing in them again after losing to me twice in two consecutive tournaments

It's just funny to see what kind of stories you cook up with completely imperfect information. It's so wonderfully contrived and obnoxious to dismiss all my other reasons for sometimes playing and sometimes not playing in tournaments and say "all your other excuses are just defense mechanisms to preserve your own ego".

What it comes down to is you can see scaredness in the pattern on how I have joined 1v1 tournaments? And don't believe my reasons for joining or not joining them but rather want to draw your own conclusions.

I did play in shaister's 1v1 tournament that chohan won in exhibition style. I believe I lost a very close match to nemesis in the semis. How does this fit your narrative? Do I lose some matches, then decide to be scared for some time and then collect my courage enough to try my chances of being the alpha dog again? And is your reasoning really that I had enough courage to play in the two 1v1 tournaments you won but after that got too scared to play again?
I just want to find some common criteria on when youre calling people scared and when they can just opt out of playing due to different reasons. Yeah I haven't played in every single 1v1 tournament in the past 20 years, I have played in most of them though.
If someone hosts a 1v1 tournament right now and I don't join, is my real reason for not joining being scared of losing? Do you think so for any of the other half active mythers that might not join, say shaister, or is it for some reason special treatment for me only?

I have found a pattern of you not answering a single direct question yet though. For example could you still explain the internet connection debacle "Big secret with you, has been for years.", what the hell did that mean?

[adrenaline]

Me being listed on the 5L team in 2003 proves BOTH gkg and adren are liars in saying that I didn't start playing Myth until 2007 like BOTH of you have said in this thread. Clearly in 2003 I was a heavy hitter already, but since you refuse to actually click the link under my name and find some random bogus page instead, that's cool too. Accurate that I was one of the team's better players, and also accurate a lot of people hated me. What's this again about not being good and not having an ego until 2007, gkg?

Fake news. Neither of us said you didn't start playing until 2007. You are literally making up shit, and then calling us liars based on that shit. It's... laughable.

"one of the teams better players" does not mean heavy hitter.. unless you mean in the way that URZooked was a heavy hitter for gru... 5L was a 3-trow rated team for fuck sake, and only then because Erik was the captain. And there is no link under your name. THIS is how TA's were done in '03. That is your TA. Your only TA. I'm not just making this shit up... http://web.archive.org/web/20040209092512/http://www.mythwa.com:80/mwc2003/teams/5H17L15T.html Tell us again how every TAer rated you 5-balls, though

Adrenaline if you can post a single film of you beating me IN A SINGLE 1V1 EVER SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME. I will concede to you and give you back your 5 ball rating.

You know good and well that I've never been obsessed with saving films like you are. I've never cared to save them or back them up between computer builds/explosions/anything. I have no films of our 1v1s, or my many 1v1s with GKG, Shai, Tirri, etc etc. The difference is they won't deny that I've beaten them, and I won't deny that they've beaten me. Films really don't mean shit without context. Oh, you posted 1 film from a match consisting of 5+ games? Post the other 4, too. Ah right, you only save the films when you win. So I guess you've proven that you've beaten me 15 times out of the 100+ games we've played. Nicely done. "Films or it didn't happen" is like asking "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" Of fucking course it does.

[Giant Killer General]

Adren said everything that was needed to be said. Try again, Kirk.

Tirri, you only continue to prove the point of my very simple and undeniable observation of human nature by continuously demonstrating how much you apparently care about how I and others perceive you. You know what kind of person is the most scared in these situations? The kind of person who cares a lot about how others perceive them.

I only change my story when you change your story. I clearly said that you either played in the 06 or 07 1v1 tournaments and lost, or you did not play in them at all despite still playing in mwc. And I further stated that whichever one of these two scenarios actually happened, it didn't really matter anyway since the end-result would be the same. Since you never said earlier if you played in either of those tournaments, I began to assume that you did not. Now you want to suddenly admit to playing in and losing in Shai's 1v1 tournament in 07, fine. It still doesn't matter for 07 though, and still doesn't explain 06 anyway.

The more you push against this point, the more it only further convinces me that I am correct. This is the most talking you have done in any myth conversation that I have ever seen. I mentioned adren and kirk's names in the exact same way as you, yet neither of them raised so much as a peep about it, while here you are still going on about it even after I told you there was nothing left for you to say that would convince me otherwise. I even said I would likely feel the same way if put in the same position. The only one who took issues with anything I said about that, was you. Clearly, it bothers you a lot.

Anyway, I have already said everything I have to say about it. You can say whatever you want about it, too. Dispute it all you want, I don't care. My narrative is that you are human like everyone else, and any human being in that position would feel the fear of the threat to their big ego. Your narrative is a superhero story where you were always completely fearless. Everyone else can make up their own minds about it from there. But at the end of the day and regardless of what everyone else may think, this is still my observation of you and others as someone who has played with, against, or around you and others like you for over a decade.

[tirri]

I only change my story when you change your story. I clearly said that you either played in the 06 or 07 1v1 tournaments and lost, or you did not play in them at all despite still playing in mwc. And I further stated that whichever one of these it was didn't really matter anyway since the end-result would be the same. Since you never said earlier if you played in either of those tournaments, I began to assume that you did not. You want to suddenly admit to playing in and losing the one in 07, fine. Still doesn't matter for 07, and still doesn't explain 06 anyway.

Bravo on still not answering a single question I asked gkg.

So essentially you want believable evidence for every single 1v1 tourney in the past 20 years on why I could possibly choose not to play and keep calling me scared if something like that can't be provided. The 07 doesn't fit your narrative at all, and your reply is "doesn't matter for 07 and doesn't explain 06". If I play in 07 and lose, how does that make me scared? Was I for some reason less scared that year than in 06? Do I just sometimes try to dodge good players but not all the time?

Since you never said earlier if you played in either of those tournaments, I began to assume that you did not.

Your earlier posts contain several flat out wrong assumptions and fabrications and I've already said I'm not going to go through them all and disprove you, especially since right after the first post you started questioning my word. But it's hilarious to know that you will start accepting and assuming your stories as facts if I don't go through your page long posts bit by bit and disprove everything you say.

Your narrative is a superhero story where you were always completely fearless.

My narrative is that I have joined or not joined any of the tournaments in the past 20 years according to my own interest and real life events, not due to some made up stories about being scared of 1 player or another. Hardly a superhero story, mostly just normal human behaviour that should be pretty believable without posting pages and pages of evidence

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

Me being listed on the 5L team in 2003 proves BOTH gkg and adren are liars in saying that I didn't start playing Myth until 2007 like BOTH of you have said in this thread. Clearly in 2003 I was a heavy hitter already, but since you refuse to actually click the link under my name and find some random bogus page instead, that's cool too. Accurate that I was one of the team's better players, and also accurate a lot of people hated me. What's this again about not being good and not having an ego until 2007, gkg?

Fake news. Neither of us said you didn't start playing until 2007. You are literally making up shit, and then calling us liars based on that shit. It's... laughable.

"one of the teams better players" does not mean heavy hitter.. unless you mean in the way that URZooked was a heavy hitter for gru... 5L was a 3-trow rated team for fuck sake, and only then because Erik was the captain. And there is no link under your name. THIS is how TA's were done in '03. That is your TA. Your only TA. I'm not just making this shit up... http://web.archive.org/web/20040209092512/http://www.mythwa.com:80/mwc2003/teams/5H17L15T.html Tell us again how every TAer rated you 5-balls, though

Adrenaline if you can post a single film of you beating me IN A SINGLE 1V1 EVER SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME. I will concede to you and give you back your 5 ball rating.

You know good and well that I've never been obsessed with saving films like you are. I've never cared to save them or back them up between computer builds/explosions/anything. I have no films of our 1v1s, or my many 1v1s with GKG, Shai, Tirri, etc etc. The difference is they won't deny that I've beaten them, and I won't deny that they've beaten me. Films really don't mean shit without context. Oh, you posted 1 film from a match consisting of 5+ games? Post the other 4, too. Ah right, you only save the films when you win. So I guess you've proven that you've beaten me 15 times out of the 100+ games we've played. Nicely done. "Films or it didn't happen" is like asking "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" Of fucking course it does.

They say the empty can rattles the most. Adren, you are the empty can. Lots of noise, but only because theres nothing inside that head of yours. You lie again about the 2003 assessments.

"They could put on a good show in the bottom bracket if Kirk stays unbanned and Erik is motivated."

"The plot for them thickens this week with Erik being banned again, and Kirk still banned I'm guessing. That leaves Zagon and some co-opers to take on a full Lg team. Should be GG there— unless the following get answered: Will Erik and Kirk get their bans lifted or convince Lg to play over TCP/IP?"

Most of the team were dummy accounts of really good players.

Adren, enough with the films excuse. If you actually ever won anything in 1v1s, you know the importance of films. They have been a staple of Myth since day 1. You flat out just are not as good as you think you are. You post something to try to call me a liar, then when I click on the links, it shows everything that I just fucking said. Clearly you are the delusional liar. Oh, and you probably drive a rust bucket.

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

Adren, you should feel honored that you are even getting some attention in the big boy thread. I know it must make you nervous to be in the presence of several superior Mythers. Maybe if you were good at this game back when it mattered, you wouldn't still be so angry.

5L would have won MWC03 if Erik and I weren't banned. Hands down. BIA was a fucking joke. Whos winning the best myther ever poll? Looks like I'm up to 4 versus 0 votes. Clearly everyone knows who is the best.

[Mythpro]

GKG's immutable human nature laws he learned from playing "competitive" myth & reading Steven Pressfield LOL The number one critical assumption failure is the assumprion that being good at myth is difficult on the samw level as actual tournament challenges.

That Go player who was the world champion out of milluons of players who had to play and ultimately lose to a super computer: pressure situation

GKG's autism acting up about his myth power level in a game with 50 players nobody cares about and most importantly ISN'T DIFFICULT AT ALL compared to most other computer games is a fucking joke. The empty can is the fucking loser who thinks his myth skill equates to real competitive play lmao

[Giant Killer General]

I have found a pattern of you not answering a single direct question yet though. For example could you still explain the internet connection debacle "Big secret with you, has been for years.", what the hell did that mean?

Easy, I said this because I have asked you this same question a couple times in past conversations from years ago when discussing the early years of myth whenever you wanted to brag about your success during it. And you would always avoid answering the question.

There, I answered your question.

Most of your other questions are just sort of nonsense, so I am not going to go through them. If you want to ask a serious question, I have no problem answering it.

Did you want to change your story at all on whether or not you played in Chohan's 1v1 tournament in 2006? Right now, it sounds like you did not participate in it. But I just want to be sure you aren't going to all of sudden add new details that you have been withholding from the conversation this whole time and then claim that I made stuff up.

So essentially you want believable evidence for every single 1v1 tourney in the past 20 years on why I could possibly choose not to play and keep calling me scared if something like that can't be provided.

I never demanded evidence. You just like to make broad statements first that are devoid of any detail so it isn't immediately and blatantly falsifiable. Until, of course, someone like me pulls your teeth to give the full details of what happened. But if there does happen to be readily available evidence online somewhere, then yes, I think it is important to use it if possible. Otherwise, I have literally taken your word on nearly everything else you have said after you give full details, so I am not sure why you are complaining about here, other than taking another opportunity to act like a diva as always.

Your earlier posts contain several flat out wrong assumptions and fabrications and I've already said I'm not going to go through them all and disprove you, especially since right after the first post you started questioning my word.

Whatever my own misrepresentations may have been as you claim, let's not forget the big whopping misrepresentation you made at the very start of all this by trying to make it seem you were far and above better than Chohan, which is what started much of this entire conversation in the first place. Or I guess you think you are completely innocent of that one too? Give me a break. So yea, I questioned your word at the beginning when you tried to pull that nonsense, and deservedly so.

You seem to hang your hat a lot the fact that you only missed a handful of 1v1 tournaments. But my entire judgment is not based solely on that. It is also based on my own personal interactions with you, particularly with scheduling 1v1 matches with you (including postponing matches to get more practice duels in, including your convenient timing in walking away from a tournament as our match was supposed to be played), and watching you 1v1 other top players. Or more broadly, your entire myth persona. If you ever won anything, you were always very quick to amplify the credit you gave yourself from it. And if you ever lost anything, you were always just as quick to discount anyone else's win over you. This is all very typical behavior of someone who is afraid to lose on some level. The defense mechanisms of an ego attempting to protect itself. "I didn't win? Well, I didn't care or try anyway." Everyone knows that is competitive gaming 101. My point is that even most of the best players engage in this behavior, including you.

It's seriously as if you are trying to pretend as if no gamer has ever felt intimidated in any way by anyone else while competing in a game. And furthermore, that we could simply just take every gamer's word for it that they never felt intimidated if they said so. I guess we are all always just so above the game that we compete in and brag about for years and years. And human mentality must not exist in games more generally either.

[Mythpro]

Could it pissibly be anymore obvious GKG's high horse derives from his self appointed status as a "competative gaming pro" yet is literally bragging about fucking MYTH ie a game with barely a few dozen players that is so eady GKG evenbhad Zak invent an entire new "pro" playset and ecen introduced an entirely non base game gametype to try desperately to make the game "more challenging"? Could it possibly be more obvious that GKG's entire life status revolves around this con he's sold you people about his legendary myth prowess? Pathetic, fruedian compensation for something, ironic that less than 10 or 20 people on earth care about GKG's myth competitiveness. Luckily there are many many more difficult games with huge tournamemt turnouts involving real prizes abd ecen global celebrity status. Yet GKG rests on his MYTH skill. Give me a fucking break

[tirri]

Whatever my own misrepresentations may have been as you claim, let's not forget the big whopping misrepresentation you made at the very start of all this by trying to make it seem you were far and above better than Chohan, which is what started much of this entire conversation in the first place. Or I guess you think you are completely innocent of that one too? Give me a break. So yea, I questioned your word at the beginning when you tried to pull that nonsense, and deservedly so.

my post implies nothing of the sort of me being far and above better than chohan. literally everyone knows my history with chohan perfectly and knows very well that he was unbeatable in 1v1s for some time. why i would have to repeat this common knowledge in my first post, i have no idea when me or no one else was comparing such stuff in the first place. the only thing (which i have repeated several times already) my first post was about, was that when i was active and 1v1ing a lot, i didn't shy away from any challenges. then i became less active in tournaments and 1v1 in general, not because i was scared but because i just didn't want to play.

And if you ever lost anything, you were always just as quick to discount anyone else's win over you. This is all very typical behavior of someone who is afraid to lose on some level.

LOL this is hilarious coming from you after your exchanges with adren

[Giant Killer General]

my post implies nothing of the sort of me being far and above better than chohan.

Oh that's just precious.

When I was playing 1v1s like crazy before 2004, I was on 2 separate 1v1 ladders with over 100 matches total, seeking people out night and day to get matches in and had a ridiculously good record. The first 1v1 tournament I won I completely dominated, losing 2 games the whole tourney (talking about records, I DARE SAY THIS IS ONE). When Chohan started 1v1ing people and make a name for himself, I literally sought him out, challenged him and beat him soundly and did it again after Chohan wanted another chance.

I know, there's just no way anyone could interpret that to imply that you are suggesting to be better than Chohan in any way shape or form, right?

Hilarious.

Everyone is afraid to lose on some level. There is just degrees of difference in that fear.

To summarize, I am going to take your non-answer as final confirmation that you didn't play in Chohan's 1v1 tournament in 2006 despite being fully active for mwc that year, many other top players playing in it, and it having a cash prize also being offered. Add that to my own experiences with you, and that is case closed.

[adrenaline]

You lie again about the 2003 assessments.

"They could put on a good show in the bottom bracket if Kirk stays unbanned and Erik is motivated."

"The plot for them thickens this week with Erik being banned again, and Kirk still banned I'm guessing. That leaves Zagon and some co-opers to take on a full Lg team. Should be GG there— unless the following get answered: Will Erik and Kirk get their bans lifted or convince Lg to play over TCP/IP?"
...
You post something to try to call me a liar, then when I click on the links, it shows everything that I just fucking said. Clearly you are the delusional liar.

Perhaps I have to slow down for you to fully comprehend what I am telling you... here we go:

You claimed that every TAer unanimously rated you 5-balls. I claimed (and proved) that they did not. I backed my statement up with fact based on evidence. You continue to post snippets of info that lend no evidence to your arguments, instead calling me a liar... which I've already proved to be false. Clicking on the links shows every I said, not everything you said. This is not opposite day.

Let's delve deeper into this and see how many more of your bullshit we can expose. Answer a few questions Kirk:

1) Which 2 MWCs did you win prior to '03?
2) Who are these mind-blowing players that dummied for 5L and proceeded to lose to Lg and Tank Clan?

Hell... while we're at it, let's have some more fun with you.

Who did you play in the finals of the 2008 1v1 tourney? Did the finals even happen or did you claim default victory by forfeit? Yes my memory is hazy, but I seem to recall some kind of drama revolving around that tournament, like you just kept saying you won it until people eventually believed it or something. Wouldn't be surprising, as that seems to be how you convince anyone of anything... repetition repetition repetition. Your turn!

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

You lie again about the 2003 assessments.

"They could put on a good show in the bottom bracket if Kirk stays unbanned and Erik is motivated."

"The plot for them thickens this week with Erik being banned again, and Kirk still banned I'm guessing. That leaves Zagon and some co-opers to take on a full Lg team. Should be GG there— unless the following get answered: Will Erik and Kirk get their bans lifted or convince Lg to play over TCP/IP?"
...
You post something to try to call me a liar, then when I click on the links, it shows everything that I just fucking said. Clearly you are the delusional liar.

Perhaps I have to slow down for you to fully comprehend what I am telling you... here we go:

You claimed that every TAer unanimously rated you 5-balls. I claimed (and proved) that they did not. I backed my statement up with fact based on evidence. You continue to post snippets of info that lend no evidence to your arguments, instead calling me a liar... which I've already proved to be false. Clicking on the links shows every I said, not everything you said. This is not opposite day.

Let's delve deeper into this and see how many more of your bullshit we can expose. Answer a few questions Kirk:

1) Which 2 MWCs did you win prior to '03?
2) Who are these mind-blowing players that dummied for 5L and proceeded to lose to Lg and Tank Clan?

Hell... while we're at it, let's have some more fun with you.

Who did you play in the finals of the 2008 1v1 tourney? Did the finals even happen or did you claim default victory by forfeit? Yes my memory is hazy, but I seem to recall some kind of drama revolving around that tournament, like you just kept saying you won it until people eventually believed it or something. Wouldn't be surprising, as that seems to be how you convince anyone of anything... repetition repetition repetition. Your turn!

I beat paris or rabican in the finals. Pretty sure it was paris because I remember thinking something was fixed because he made it to the finals on his own tournaments. I know I beat you along the way during that tournament. I beat raz in the semifinals. Raz was the one who couldn't understand that losing to me 5-2 meant he was out of the tournament. He threw a fit and pretended that the match was not over due to his schizo ideologics.

1) I'm sure you can do the math and figure it out.
2) Well if the entire team is banned, surely they lost to crappy outnumbered opponents. Just like how we lost playing as ROT LOL

[adrenaline]

Well you definitely didn't beat me in that tournament, as I am pretty certain I wasn't in it. Also don't think GKG or Tirri played in it... so congrats? Even if I was, I've never lost a 1v1 tourney match to Paris, Rab, or Raz and have never played you in a 1v1 tourney outside of that one match in GKG's MFC. Actually I think I lost a match to Raz in like 2004 or whatever the first 1v1 tourney I played in was... I was not as adept at 1v1 on m2 at that point.

1) another dodge. Civil/SF won both MWCs prior and you weren't on either team, and they sure as fuck wouldn't have let some scrub dummy in the finals. Either way, the films still exist... so this is just way too easy to debunk. BUSTED.

2) yet another dodge. You aren't very good at this game, Kirk.

So we've established that you are a blame-shifting, pathological liar and you've pretty much destroyed any shred of credibility you once had... pretty fucking easy to take GKG's side in the original argument, if anyone can remember what it was at this point.

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

LOL dren. I'm OK with you not understanding the truth. Your fragile head wouldn't be able to handle it.

I say we make a MWC team:

BIG KROK V8 SS (CAPTAIN)
GKG
ADRENALINE
TIRRI
WWO
PHEX
FATHER XMAS




I WANNA GET FXMAS HIS DESERVED RING

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

Check out these gems I just found from 2011.

Conversation on facebook between me, honkey, and abs:

Looks like gkg was still in 2nd place back then too LOL

[adrenaline]

Kirk with the evasive maneuvers:

[Flatline's buttplug]

It's the 20th anniversary of M2 and the best we have is three faggots who were all retired at some stage or another but never actually left talking about a retirement match from eight years ago.....gas yourselves.

[adrenaline]

4 faggots, actually. learn to math, scrub.

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

Myth needs more competition. Myth doesn't need more organized play-by-our-rules-only ffa games like those FCAW losers.

[LOL]

JUST REFORM THE COONBROS ALREADY. EVERYBODY WANTS TO SEE THAT HAPPEN!

COON COON COON!

[sasper]

they are both massively overrated

[sasper]

I pissed down kirks mums throat while ruining GKGs mums asshole with a baseball bat

[sasper]

this was while adrenaline was smoking his own pubic hair

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

LOL. tuscile probably thinks that ksiaze is an elite myther.

[Honk]

I can confirm the following:

Kirk was a heavy hitter on ghetto cakes. I remember because rocket dive was a very good friend of mine and didnt play on my team that tournament. In fact my squad had to play against that squad and kirk was considered on of their top guns. It was my first experience with kirk and i remember getting smashed by them on the baron level map with the confuse warlocks and seeing that obnoxious orange.

I can also confirm that drizzt was regarded as the premier player on bnet for a majority of the early 2000s until the time period many of us diasappeared when turning 18. It is also a known fact in pro gaming that kids are the best because of their reaction time. It would make perfect sense for drizzt to lose a half step upon his return and odds are he did careless. Keep in mind in 20 years of on and off myth and even being on a tournament team or 2 with tirri ive never spoken to the guy iirc. Its purely observation.. he along with <gasp> myrk were two of the highest regarded players in myth for a very active and meaningful time period.

At this time gkg you were viewed as the up and comer with cacra i believe? You got really good at myth down the road and certainly are responsible for much of the end game meta/refinement.and the 17 people you have influenced look upon you with the highest esteem.

However where you fall short of both tirri and kirk is not in your myth ability but your branding. See this never comes in to play when discussing the real argument you guys are actually having right now.. and that is who is the most accomplished myther of you 3 and a long retired dude whose brand is still carrying him.

Tirri is known as a heavy hitter on the gold standard tournament team in the prime of myth. Ratings matter.. and drizzt got more communal recognition for his quiet and efficient play during one mwc than you have in a decade.

Kirk is a showman..talks mad shit.. pulls crazy shit out of his ass and whether you love him or hate him you likely have an opinion about him. He also created a culture on the server for many.. and without kirk you wouldnt see the empowerment of amazing posters and personalities such as pogue..liger..shadow etc. Lots of this toxic culture which many enjoy is a direct result of kirk shitting up boards and chatrooms. And i thank him for it.

Unfortunately gkg you have essentially branded yourself as an intolerable person with a poor sense of humor.. fake humbleness.. and the only person in the history of the world whose never being wrong about anything. Your "cultural" contribution to myth is literally turning asmo in to your dick rider. Are you a good myther? Absolutely. One of the best ever? Absolutely... yet.. noone gives a shit.. honestly bring back the pre 2008 gkg and myth would be a better place.