RESET RANKED

Gate of Storms (GoS) is a metaserver (lobby) for Myth II Soulblighter multiplayer where you can play online with friends and strangers alike for free.
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BIG KROK V8 SS
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RESET RANKED

Postby BIG KROK V8 SS » Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:27 am

January 1st reset? I have no idea how GOS ranked even works.

punkUser
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Re: RESET RANKED

Postby punkUser » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:04 pm

Sure. Still planning to give Asmo's scoring thing a try although he didn't respond as to the details of ties and so on. Will at least do a reset in any case.

Asmodian
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Re: RESET RANKED

Postby Asmodian » Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:12 pm

Sorry, I have been MIA. For ties I would give 0 pts because that would be the easiest way to abuse the ranked system if you could get points for ties.


punkUser wrote:In the current setup it's not really possible to robustly detect a host d/c drop... so while we can penalize players the host can always drop (well, pull the plug... if they just exit ingame it will still count) and the entire game won't be counted. Not ideal, but there's no good solution to that that isn't fairly complicated.


That's fine I guess. Hopefully people will be smart enough to just not play on a host that does this several times.


Was there anything else I was missing?

punkUser
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Re: RESET RANKED

Postby punkUser » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:28 am

Asmodian wrote:Sorry, I have been MIA. For ties I would give 0 pts because that would be the easiest way to abuse the ranked system if you could get points for ties.

See the original thread - you need a lot more detail than that on handling stuff like... 1st, two tied for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, tied for 5th, etc.

Also like i said scores cannot be capped at zero, so you will go negative or whatever if you lose games off the bat. Alternatively can just bias everyone so you start at N points and go up from there, etc.

Asmodian
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Re: RESET RANKED

Postby Asmodian » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:42 pm

I just looked it over and made a minor edit. All the information is there though. Pretty sure it's impossible to tie on any game type, but CTF so the scoring is fine as is.

I guess start people off at 20-40 pts or so and allow it to go negative then.

Asmodian
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Re: RESET RANKED

Postby Asmodian » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:46 pm

Pasting the scoring system here so I don't have to go back and forth between threads incase there is anything else I need to respond to.

Asmodian wrote:I don't think people are arguing that an elo system would accurately reflect skill (at least I hope not). I think people just want a system that is semi-fun even if it doesn't mean much.

Here i'll create a point system that is super simple that people would like a lot more.

Details
You can't drop below 0 points

If you wanted to you could keep track of a players points for each games type (with the same guideline in place that you can't go below 0 points in a certain game type you have no points in). I know this would have a very minimal, almost not existent impact on a persons overall rank, but it's always fun to be able to break down your stats/points a little more to see them per game type)

quarterly or biannual full resets. I would go with biannual since there isn't a lot of games being played.

If someone abuses the scoring system oh well. That would be on the community not you.

FFA - Minimum of 4 players for scoring to count

1st place - 1 point for every opponent you beat - if there are 3 opponents you get 3 point, 4 opponents 4 points [If you have an ally or not it doesn't affect the rate you gain points at]

2nd place - 1/2 a point for every opponent you place higher than.

3rd - everything but last place - you lose 1 point

last place - you lose 2 points

2-team - Minimum of 4 players for scoring to count

1st place - 2 points

last place - you lose 2 points

tie - 0 points for both teams.


Icons

Every 5 points is an upgrade in an Icon

dagger: 0-4
2 daggers: 5-9
3 daggers: 10-14

You get the point...

For the celest ranks it's based on your total relative points to everyone else like it use to be.

10 celest icons:

10-7: Half moon
6-4: Full moon
3: Eclipse
2: Sun
1: Comet

Disconnects/Drops

-2 points for a dc/drop

10 game safety pad (your first 10 disconnects you don't lose points)


Anyways of course this isn't a good algorithm for scoring, but what it does do is it significantly rewards people for winning and losing. That in itself will create healthy competition that will bring more activity whether it is just # of games played on the server or an actual increase in players.

punkUser
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Re: RESET RANKED

Postby punkUser » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:08 pm

Asmodian wrote:I just looked it over and made a minor edit. All the information is there though. Pretty sure it's impossible to tie on any game type, but CTF so the scoring is fine as is.

You need to handle ties in FFA regardless as the scoring system is not per-game-type (and other game types can tie, it's just more rare). i.e. you need to define if "opponent you beat" includes ones you tie with or not, same with "place higher than". You're also not clear on whether or not the "3rd" or "last place" rule takes priority. You need to be more specific - think about a dumb algorithm by which you would take a given team, look at all the other teams in the game and decide on the points to apply.

And remember that a player's overall points are just the sum of all their points for all their games, which is why you can't "prevent them from going below zero". You're not "updating" someone's "current points", you're just adding another game to the aggregate.

Anyways I'll see if I can find a day over the holidays to implement, but will reset regardless.

Lizard King
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Re: RESET RANKED

Postby Lizard King » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:23 pm

[quote="punkUser]
You need to handle ties in FFA regardless as the scoring system is not per-game-type (and other game types can tie, it's just more rare). i.e. you need to define if "opponent you beat" includes ones you tie with or not, same with "place higher than". You're also not clear on whether or not the "3rd" or "last place" rule takes priority. You need to be more specific - think about a dumb algorithm by which you would take a given team, look at all the other teams in the game and decide on the points to apply[/quote]

He's spelled it out for you in plain english dude, you're just nit picking. Give players that tie the same point value, split it, whatever. A tie is defined as a win by the perm for two first place ties, anyone under the tying players categorically falls into the 2nd, 3rd, etc point values. Follow that if you want, or not. How is this so fucking challenging...

Pogue
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Re: RESET RANKED

Postby Pogue » Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:25 am

BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:January 1st reset? I have no idea how GOS ranked even works.


I guess since you care about rank again you're going to be playing something other than Glad Derp? Might be a reason to actually log on from time to time.

punkUser
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:13 pm

Re: RESET RANKED

Postby punkUser » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:12 am

Lizard King wrote:He's spelled it out for you in plain english dude, you're just nit picking.

Typical LK Dunning-Kruger strikes again ;) I don't make this stuff up for fun - turns out when you write an algorithm you need to handle all the corner cases. Seriously LK it's like I'm talking to a kid with ranking stuff... you don't know enough to know how ignorant you are.

Lizard King wrote:Give players that tie the same point value, split it, whatever.

Yeah normally I'd just extrapolate the missing pieces but this time I figured maybe I'd just let you guys actually try and sort something out for once so that when you see all the issues with it you have no one to bitch to but yourselves. But TBH motivation is fading - I don't think you're even gonna be smart enough to connect those dots.

Lizard King wrote:A tie is defined as a win by the perm for two first place ties

"Perm" lol... you say that as if it's relevant to the scoring somehow. I'll pause while you think about that ;)

How about this LK - if you want to write some Ruby code to score a game I'll consider dropping it in. I'm done wasting my free time holding your hand beyond that. I honestly don't see how this time will be any different than last time when you guys swore up and down that even simple scoring/ranking - which was carefully described in advance - would be great and make everything awesome despite my skepticism. No amount of tweaking is gonna make it predictive of skill with so few players and it is becoming clear that you guys will never admit you were wrong here so remind me again why I'm wasting time on humoring you? :P


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